Today I was turned away from 2 meetings. The first one was an open meeting at the gay center in Hollywood. The leader said I could not attend because I did not have a desire to stop drinking. Of course, this is not a requirement to attend an open meeting. But since they rented out the rooms from the center, they can reject anyone for any reason. But the real reason is that two weeks ago I stood outside the room and handed out my flyers (under the “Activism” tab) as the people left.
So, I handed out my flyers to the latecomers and left.
Then I went to a closed Hollywood meeting. There were about 30 assorted middle age tough guys, along with a few 20-something girls who lead the meeting and give out free smiles and hugs to everyone. (There is also a small contingent of kinda sexy younger tatted guys.) A desire to stop drinking is a requirement of this meeting. So we went around the room and I introduced myself with “I am not an alcoholic.” There was a bit of a kerfuffle, so after everyone introduced themselves they said it was up to a vote (group conscience) whether I could stay. The vote went my way (about 2/3), but then the old guy said that it has to be unanimous. They offered me another chance to say at least that I had a desire to stop drinking, but alas I did not (although I don’t have a desire to drink either). So they decided that I must leave. I left my flyers on the back table (which were promptly discarded), and told everyone to visit me at AddictionMyth.com.
“What? Addiction MYTH?” Yup. AddictionMyth.com. Check it out!
One of the hallmarks of a cult is intolerance to antithetical views. Of course, all organizations have this right, but AA prides itself on its openness. And then it rejects me. If it would just admit it’s a cult then I wouldn’t care.
Other hallmarks of a cult (borrowed from atheistsgroup on Craigslist, thanks!):
(1) secretive about what they believe and do, AA isn’t secretive
(2) a group that requires strict adherence to a specific set of rules or beliefs
(3) a leader who has at the center of his system something that leads to his personal gain of money, power, or prestige
I think AA fits all 3 criteria: it is secretive (bans people who report on what it does), requires strict adherence (bans people with opposing views), and while it has no charismatic leaders, the multi-billion dollar rehab industry relies on it to propagate the Addiction Myth and attract new recruits. Not to mention, the Drug War is predicated on the Addiction Myth — multi-billion dollar source for arms and the prison-industrial complex.
Certainly at this point I don’t expect to change anyone’s mind. Most of these people are beyond hope. But I hope at least that the newcomers will think twice about what they are getting into.
You are truly a sniveling little troublemaker, aren’t you?
It is within the traditions of AA to turn someone who is disruptive out of a meeting. You were disruptive, and were put out. This is for the protection of the decent folks attending who want to get well. Any civic group has such rules. I was a facilitator for a depression and bipolar support group for years, and we asked people to leave if they were distracting from our purpose. AA clearly states its’ primary purpose is to help others recover from alcoholism. Just because you believe alcoholism to be mythical doesn’t empower you to go and ruin the experience for those who feel differently.
Secondly, if you already know that attendence at close meetings requires a desire to stop drinking, and you go there with the clear intention to simply buck the system, when you clearly were aware of what would happen, this doesn’t make you some kind of hero or cool dissenter. It just makes you sound like a childish ass. I would feel compassion for you if you didn’t make it so clear you just want to make trouble.
Lastly, I would feel some respect for you if you were trying to build something up. Any negative, whiny bastard can pull something down. It takes a real human to build something. If you are the fine, caring human you claim to be, come up with your own program and offer it to the suffering. Otherwise, why don’t you shut up and go back to quietly sucking your thumb in the corner.
My message to the suffering: you are not powerless! You’ve been brainwashed! Get out of AA before they kill you!
I wasn’t there to make trouble, nor was I disruptive. I was there to study the cult, and I would have been perfectly behaved as I always am during meetings. Much of my research is possible only by going to meetings, I keep a low profile, and my presence is not distracting. No one there knew who I was. This experiment was well worth reporting, and suggests other strategies.
I find it so interesting that you (and most AA defenders) are so quick to nitpick my tactics, but not my claim that addiction is completely fake and AA is the cult that kills. Well, of course, this only makes me more confident. I suspect you know it too.
I will not stand idly by while people in my community are dying. While you watch with morbid fascination, possibly even facilitating it. Is that human?
No, AddictionMoron, I watch you with morbid fascination. You are a twister of words and a liar. You admit you went to the closed meeting, admitted you weren’t an alcoholic, yet still snivel about being asked to leave. You know the rules. Closed meetings are for those who don’t want to be “studied” by you. It is about anonymity. If you had any personal accountability, you would respect that.
Standing around handing out flyers in an AA meeting saying addiction is fake and AA “kills” is not disruptive at all, is it?
Some people in your community are going to die of their addictions whether they attend a twelve step program or not. But everything you say is some sort of lie or distortion. You seem incapable of a straight answer to any questions posed to you, and totally misrepresent much about AA. Then there is the fantasy-land crystal ball aspect of your personality.
You representation that AA says it has a cure for alcoholism is laughable. It says clearly in the Big Book that what we have is a daily reprieve based on the “maintenance of our spiritual condition.” As to your claim that you suspect I agree with you that addiction doesn’t exist, more of you delusions here. I know it does. My lifetime drinking pattern tells me so. What I have seen in the rooms of AA tells me so. You know scientific acceptance of theories is based on consensus, yet about addiction, you whinily say it does not exist, and elsewhere here have just stated “the consensus is wrong.” How convenient for you. Show me some evidence, or shut your gob hole. And save the “Carl Hart knows it all”,and “Cory Monteith was killed by AA” rants. Next it will be some insane babble about how AA put a spike in PSH’s arm. No, he did, and is solely responsible for leaving a greiving widow and three little children in his ghastly wake.
Your fanciful writings about AA being various and creative, I simply cannot quote all the intricacies of your lies here. What I will say is that the program of AA is simple. People complicate it.
My experience is that a few get long periods of sobriety, and some have shorter periods with some relapses. What it is really about is going and listening with an unbiased mind for the similarities in our situations, not the differences. You seem incapable of that. I am perfectly willing to admit the studies that it is no more effective than CBT or other means of recovery. But the extreme negative aspects you claim? Just crap.
For instance, you claim AA tels us we are “defective people” and this is why we cannot recover. It so damages our self-image that we become diminished and incapable of growth. What I have learned in the program is that I am a good person with a few character defects. It has built me up, not broken me down.
Personal responsibility is stressed. Everyone is responsible for their own feelings and their own recovery. I can see personal responsibility is not your strong suit, we can’t even count on you to not attend meetings you know you don’t belong in…
I go to meetings for several reasons. One is my own recovery. The other is to share my “experience, strength and hope” so that others may as well. Contrary to your absolutely insane claims, it is a program of helping others. And I do not stand idly by if someone needs help, and I can provide it.
Yours is a twisted, delusional and nasty mind seemingly incapable of producing any positive input. I suspect now that your Adult is Child and Parent contaminated, and you function from a base of “I’m not OK, You’re not OK.” Must be painful to have that slithering basket of angry eels for a mind.
All said, if you are so damned smart and AA is so terrible, come ul with your own, better alternative. Bet you can’t. Why, because like all small minded folks, you can only tear down, not build up.
Given your savior complex, this ought to suit you. Get right on it.
I can hardly await your next outpouring of vomitous falsehood. This is sort of like reading the “Onion.” Sickly sweet amusing and ultimately you know it to be untrue. At least at the “Onion” they don’t believe their writings. You do, and that is a bit scary.
I forgot to mention in my first comment that I asked twice to go to drug rehab and was denied. I had and still might have hypercalcemia and hypercalciuria along with many other health problems that serious mental problems (probably because they were caused by a surgery and doctors think I just want to sue (what are you supposed to do if your injured from a doctor, nobody will treat you)). Then years after the surgery I finally agreed to take pain medicine but became addicted and also starting drinking. What I’m trying to ask is how can anybody this sick get help especially when you ask and are denied twice? I just don’t get it. Who can you trust?
I wanted to join AA but was concerned they would report back to medical community what I would say as I’ve had my psychiatrist and psychologist report things I’ve told them about myself. I wanted to join so I could have others like me support me in getting myself living a life I truly want and the kind of life they talk about having sounds like what I want for myself. But I am concerned what I say will get back to medical community either by other members or the sponsors themselves. I was sexually abused by 2 doctors when I was 15. I was not a hysterical 15 year-old teenage girl as their was no other way to determine it as a sexual assault with what came out of his body. The second one didn’t get that far as I was done being in shock after the first one. That is not the only reason I distrust the medical community. I’m 55 now. Not only the things that have been done to me and my children and husband but to my family and friends. The medical community definitely abuse their power. Sometimes, it is just honest mistakes but all too often it is absolutely, proof positive blatant abuse. They are above the law and with how many in the medical community recommend AA I’m not sure of AA. I have heard that each AA group is unique in their own way and an alcoholic needs to find the strength and courage to find the right one for themselves. Strong-willed, intelligent people who have lots of support get seriously hurt and even killed by doctors, so what is somebody like me suppose to do. Healthcare is a huge industry in this country and drug rehab is a big part of it. I’ve had friends who worked in drug rehabs and tell of the abuse. I have friends and family members that work in other health care places and the reports of the abuse is horrifying. I don’t think turning my life over to God is admitting I’m weak and have no control over myself. Actually, to the contrary. I think I would be saying I’m strong and courageous and I acknowledge my God-given Divine nature or connection and I choose to take control over my life by accepting this gift. I just don’t know who to trust to help me get there.
What is the name of that meeting? They are in violation of the traditions of AA if your story is true. By the way, many people who come to Alcoholics Anonymous do not describe them selves as alcoholics. Some are sent by the court system after a DUI, some are professional people trying to find out why Alcoholics Anonymous works when many times psychiatry and personal counseling don’t work with alcoholics.
But if you are disruptive in a meeting, if you talk about other ways to get sober, or if you talk about addiction as a myth, the group has every right to ask you to leave. So check your own inventory, ask an old timer why they don’t want you in an AA meeting, but if you have a problem drinking and driving, find another meeting.