William James was born in 1842 and grew up in an age of rapid advancements in science and industry that promised to unveil the mysteries of the world and relieve man of his physical burdens. He studied medicine at Harvard and soon was teaching courses in physiology. However he is best known for his contributions to the study of the mind, and is considered the “Father of American psychology”. He founded the philosophical school of Pragmatism, which stated that the truth of a statement is nothing more than the usefulness to the person who believes it (a reversal of our intuitive sense). He applied the newly discovered principles of Darwinism to epistemology: the most useful ideas eventually win out.
James built a career out of flipping our intuitive understanding of things, for example he famously claimed: “It is not that we see a bear, fear it, and run; we see a bear and run; consequently, we fear the bear.” He was also interested in religious and paranormal experiences, and was profoundly influenced by a session with a psychic medium who told him things that she couldn’t possibly have known. Though he didn’t believe her claim of communicating with spirits, he was convinced that she had true telepathic powers. It turned out that their maids shared a friendship by which the information was likely gleaned; nevertheless he remained a believer and was an early official of the American Society for Psychical Research, which attempted to apply scientific principals to the study of paranormal experience such as life after death.
In the classical age of physics, the astonishing developments in the theories of electromagnetism and mechanics intensified the problem of determinism (and fatalism). He said: “My first act of free will shall be to believe in free will.” Of course the thorny problem is when you declare otherwise, and perhaps that contributed to the neurasthenia from which he suffered as a young man.
James is best known for his masterwork Varieties of Religious Experience, a detailed and scholarly examination of extreme cases of middle-aged men who found ‘god’ or ‘enlightenment’ in a flash of inspiration after a period of intense depression as they struggled with their impending mortality. James claimed that such experiences had transformative powers and were just as true as any scientific principle, since they provided a deep usefulness and meaning to a man in his time of distress. “The only thing that it unequivocally testifies to is that we can experience union with something larger than ourselves and in that union find our greatest peace.” (VRE p. 380)
James died in 1910, and his philosophy was discredited and mostly forgotten by the time of Einstein’s discovery of General Relativity in 1915, which explained gravity as nothing more than the curvature of space-time in the presence of mass. Perhaps the greatest intellectual achievement of all time, the theory was vindicated soon after it was published by a British expedition to Brazil that showed the predicted deflection of starlight around the sun during an eclipse; “Einstein Theory Triumphs!” hailed the NY Times. (Though both the observation and the initial calculation each contained a large but exactly equal error.) The theory holds little pragmatic value today for all but astronomers and philosophers, though Einstein remarked that once understood, one can’t help but be astonished by its simplicity and beauty – qualities the mathematician admires more than ‘usefulness’. Einstein dedicated most of his career to a grand unified theory of gravity and quantum physics (which are mathematically incompatible). Of course he failed, nor has anyone yet succeeded.
Born again Pragmatism
In the early 1930’s, Bill Wilson was struggling with his impending mortality, and had taken to the common habit of reducing his standards by getting drunk; but there was only so low he could go even when plastered. In the depths of his despair, his friend Ebby Thatcher, who also had a history of excessive drinking, introduced him to both the Oxford Group and James’ Varieties. Both had a profound influence on him. He had his own religious experience when the “Father of Light” appeared to him in a vision. Suddenly he lost his desire to drink.
Wilson was obsessed with Varieties for months, and encouraged everyone to read it. This along with the Oxford Group and Crowley’s Thelema (“Do what thou wilt”) provided the foundations for the 12 Steps and Alcoholics Anonymous. William James is mentioned twice in the Big Book, and is one of only two people mentioned by name (Carl Jung is the other).
James’s Pragmatist philosophy was thereby resurrected in AA theology, which claims that the experience is real and true simply because it works. This reverse engineering of religious enlightenment is taken by the members to its logical conclusion: “AA worked for me and it’s the only thing that ever worked. I buried many friends due to this disease. AA has saved millions of lives. Now I am happy, joyous, and free.™”
In the Pragmatist school, people don’t drink because they are unhappy (as one would naively assume). Instead, they are unhappy because they drink. The mind is warped in the presence of alcohol: “The tragic truth is that if the man be a true alcoholic, the happy day may not arrive…. Most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink…. We are without defense against the first drink.” (BB p. 23-24) Drinking has become some kind of illness, a claim hard to dispute because most excessive drinkers are not willing to admit the real reasons. The First Step requires the new member to confess powerlessness and the abject failure of will. “No amount of will power he might muster could stop his drinking for long.” (BB p. 155) “The alcoholic is an extreme example of self-will run riot, though he usually doesn’t think so.” (BB p. 62) Relapses are common for this ‘cunning and baffling’ disease.
But most excessive drinkers moderate on their own with or without the help of AA (and AA has been shown to be dangerous for younger drinkers). Furthermore, AA fosters a cycle of bingeing and abstinence that is more damaging to the brain than continuous inebriation. No matter to the AA member who is trained to repeat the mantras: “I couldn’t stop drinking no matter how hard I tried. I almost died. AA helped me when nothing else worked. AA saved the lives of millions. Anyone is susceptible to addiction.” By reciting these lies, the AA member actually creates the disease called ‘alcoholism’ in his own mind and the mind of the vulnerable — lies completely justified by their perceived usefulness and so become Pragmatically ‘true’.
To be clear: Alcoholism (addiction) is simply a lie and a fake disease manufactured by the 12 Step cults. They create the disease and then offer the cure. It’s a scam as old as human history. No surprise that its ranks are filled with criminals and self-professed liars.
“Abandon yourself to God, as you understand God. Admit your faults to Him and to your fellows. Clear away the wreckage of your past.” (BB p. 164) Such advice may appeal to the middle aged who are tired of the drunkenness and the repeated dashing of their hopes. “Some of us sought out sordid places… Then would come oblivion and the awful awakening…. Unhappy drinkers who read this page will understand!” (BB. p 151) Many actually take the advice to heart, and make amends with the families that they abandoned to their ‘drinking’. And become upstanding citizens, even if they are also the most persuasive apostles for their cult: “AA worked for me and it was the only thing that ever worked.” In so doing they promote addiction and recruit fresh blood for the organization. And for the Pragmatist, that’s all that matters.
Before the Miracle Happens
But the offer of a Higher Power has little appeal to the young person whose pursuits lean more toward fun and sex than ‘serenity’. They may profess temporary interest, but then return to drinking with the claim, “AA didn’t help me. It just seemed too Christian and moralistic.” Of course, they will eventually return and ‘get it’, even if it takes decades.
The real threat of AA is to vulnerable people sent by the courts or simply in search of companionship, who are immediately taught the self-fulfilling prophecy of doom: “Each AA member is to follow the 12 steps to the best of their ability or face jails, institutions or death.” (12 Traditions) “Death was often near.” (BB p. 107) The newcomer is required to admit ‘powerlessness’ to alcohol and vow to abstain from drinking for the rest of their lives. They are then required to reveal their deepest sins and insecurities with rigorous honesty (a classic brainwashing technique), and then subjected to exploitation and abuse by the cult, and then expected to ‘make amends’ for it. The lucky ones will eventually leave in anger, and the unfortunates will be held up as a testament to the deadly power of their newly diagnosed ‘disease’.
Bill Wilson is infamous for ’13th Stepping’ the newcomers and had to be monitored for that reason. There are numerous web sites dedicated to exposing the exploitation and abuse, even if they still believe his propaganda. They say: “Addiction is real, but AA is not the only effective treatment.”
Seeking the Truth no matter where it lies
AA teaches the Craving Lie: “I couldn’t stop drinking no matter how hard I tried.” If you actually go to a meeting you discover ‘craving’ is actually of little concern for the members. Mostly they claimed to drink because their friends were, or because they were lonely, or for some other simple reason. They don’t claim to struggle with their cravings until after the fact: “As we look back, we feel we had gone on drinking many years beyond the point where we could quit on our will power.” (BB p. 34)
The real truth is that AA is a pagan-theistic cult that alternately idolizes and demonizes its one true god: alcohol. Laugh along with the merry drunkalogs. Nod solemnly at the claims of close brushes with imminent death. Go to your local AA meeting and see for yourself!
The purpose of the cult is to ensure a steady flow of newcomers to abuse and exploit as a continuation of their drinking career. Of course, they can always return to the bars when AA gets boring, and just call it a ‘relapse’ if anyone finds out. Ironically, the newcomer admires the mischief, even if his own life will be offered in payment for it.
People often wonder why AA is so popular as a treatment program when it has never been shown to be effective. The reason is simply AA’s power and influence as a propaganda machine that has infiltrated all levels of the government, entertainment, and medical industries to legitimize modern day demon possession. The 12th Step: “Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.” AA created the disease and so holds the patent on its cure. Other treatment modalities such as SMART Recovery and HAMS are little more than AA deprogramming operations posing as self-help groups.
Though James’s American Psychical Society was long since discredited, its legacy is continued in medical research organizations such as NIDA and NIAAA. Of course they are about as likely to ever cure addiction as they are to ‘cure’ someone of a belief in Christianity or Communism, even if they seem to be evidence of ‘life after death’.
Calling me a criminal and a self-professed liar? I wonder if you’ve read Dale Carnagie’s “How to Win Friends and Influence People?” Meanwhile, if you can make money writing such things, good luck. Always disappoints me when someone tries to elevate themselves at the price of others, and then dismisses the fact that AA has worked for a couple of million folks while never professing to be the solution for all.
I agree!
There is good and bad in everything. That is how life is. AA, Colleges, Grade Schools, Church, Police Dept, Branches of Government, Counseling Centers, even Dentist Offices. The list goes on and on, but there is good everywhere too. We can say anything and everything is fucked up, because nothing is perfect, there will always be good and bad in everything. Focusing on the bad gets you no where good. This topic is just a bitch fest wasting good energy that could be put to better use.
No, there’s not “good and bad in everything”. Selling a treatment that is demonstrated not to work to a population that your group persuades to see themselves as powerless, doesn’t have anything good about it.
Whats wrong with someone admitting they are powerless over using a drug; that they clearly admit has caused so much pain and suffering in their lives?
Because it’s a lie. You took drugs because you wanted to and you stopped when it wasn’t fun any more. You were not powerless and the only ‘pain and suffering’ is what you caused in the lives of those around you while you were being selfish. Of course, that doesn’t stop you from demanding that others confess powerlessness at your 12 Step meetings so you can convince them that they will surely die.
Don’t believe it? Just post your drugalog and see for yourself.
A drug and alcohol log? How does that help?
Im wondering if you are Trish are in recovery?
So if admitting the person is powerless is wrong on something they cant control then what is the right answer?
Trish is my drag name and yes we are in recovery. At least I am. I’ve long since stopped answering for Trish. The claim that “I can’t control my drinking” is a lie: the Craving Lie. In fact it is the whole point of the site. For more information:
http://addictionmyth.com/powerlessness-as-a-religion/
(Or maybe it’s Trish that’s in recovery? Gosh I can never keep us straight!)
I just say to each their own and whatever works for them all the better. If there was only one way in life it would be very boring. As for AA being ripped off; well everyone steals from everyone and the right thing to do is give credit where credit is due.
Hi AM,
Let me Scare Everyone Straight on the question of whether you & I are the same person. We’re not. As would be clear to anyone who actually bothered to read your articles and my posts – we actually disagree on some pretty basic issues/ideas. For example, I am an atheist, and my world view is entirely science-based. I have never had an experience that I could not explain by either the workings of the universe as described by science or by the workings of my own brain as understood by science. I know that AM has some sort of spiritual beliefs, and I respect the First Amendment that allows us to hold the differing worldviews we do.
I have never been “in recovery” and never felt the need to go to any form of rehab, and have never felt “powerless” over my own life (not that I believe that my thoughts are powerful enough to trump physical reality: if I were ever to get in a dispute with the IRS, they would win. If a bullet ever entered my body, no amount of happy thoughts could counteract the damage in the way that surgery can).
So, if I’m not/never have been in recovery, why am I here? Because I am very angry about how the 12 step social movement (which is what it is – a bunch of people who have convinced themselves and others, unfortunately including our government and a lot of the medical profession) has affected pain treatment in this country, specifically for people with severe chronic pain and for children with severe pain, and for the doctors who treat those with severe chronic pain.
I’ve posted about this before, but it’s been a while, so I will share the story of 2 children facing painful surgery who were subjects of TLC documentaries. One was a girl from Ireland with a severely deformed face and skull. She went to Texas for multiple surgeries that involved sawing into her skull and re-poistioning the pieces. Her guardians were told by hospital staff that they would “teach her how to handle pain.” The other was a girl having a parasitic twin removed in India. The doctors at that hospital told her parents, “Don’t worry about pain. We have medicine for that.”
As an American, I support the First Amendment right of everyone to believe whatever weird things they want to believe – but when those weird beliefs cause suffering to innocent people who don’t share those beliefs, then those weird beliefs need to be addressed, and those of us who see the falsity of the belief and the harm that those beliefs do, have a right – even an obligation – to call bullshit on those beliefs.
And I thank AM for providing a place where I can call bullshit on the “disease” of “addiction”, “powerlessness”, the 12 steps and the climate of fear that the ideology of the 12 steps/’addiction”/”powerlessness” have created in our country.
What if my “some sort of spiritual beliefs” includes a feisty alter ego named Trish to provide a hard-nosed ‘evidence-based’ realism to counter my compulsive tendencies towards flights of whimsy and décollage? Who ‘doth protest too much’ upon such intimations?
I think my husband would probably protest. But I will have to wait til he gets home from work to ask his opinion.
Good luck with your website. I think your next step should be to offer solutions, anyone can see problems. If you put as much energy as you do into bashing you might find something amazing for yourself and others. Who knows, but at least it would be positive for you and them.
Best of luck.
K have fun at your suicide cult and drinking club. Enjoy it while it lasts. It won’t be around much longer.
Im not in AA. Ive seen people who changed their lives because of it and seen people who didnt. There are many tools out there AA is just one and it works for some and not for others. Since youre so against it, what do offer as an alternative to the people who agree with you?
I tell them to stay away from people like Pete in Chicago who will tell them they have a disease and will surely die while publicly denying that they are a member of AA. Of course you’re not a member. You will all deny her.
Thats a funny response. Youre running around yelling theres a hole in the roof, look at the hole this AA organization leaves in everyones roof that goes to them for help. They dont do it right.
Maybe you are right there is a hole there but I dont see you offering how to fix it correctly. You just want to focus on the problem you see. Hows does that help anyone? How about a solution? You seem very dedicated to this problem you see. Why dont you led people to a better solution? I think you could do that if you focused on a solution not the problem.
If you keep making holes in the roof then stop it already! The solution to AA is the same as for ISIS and the Nazis. Destroy!
http://addictionmyth.com/the-problem-of-the-jews-and-other-brainwashing-techniques/
Maybe youre right? I came here looking for answers with my girlfriend thats 4 years sober and an active weekly member. All I heard is AA is bad. Well according to her there was no emotional roof over her head and now there is with AA. I was hoping to hear a better solution. But I just heard what I hear everywhere; this is wrong because of this or that. Anybody can do that, and everyone does. Hating an organization can be a great motivator to make a better one. If you ever do that please let me know.
OK I’m starting an organization called “I just told my girlfriend to stop bullying people into suicide at her AA meetings.” Would you like to be my first member?
Shes very quiet and doesnt push it on anyone but I get your point. I think you must really be pissed about something and blame AA. Let go of the hate, you got better things to do in life than stand on this soap box. If you care that much offer a better solution. AA is not going anywhere just like the many other organizations people cant* stand because they differ from their own beliefs.
“You are pissed, you’re blaming the world, you are full of hate, you are killing the still suffering alcoholic.” Did I forget any? You are very good at AA tactics, considering that you’re not even a member.
AA is a house of cards and it’s about to crumble. Thanks to ‘Pete in Chicago’ for the assist in blowing it down.
Damn and thanks for the compliment. I did do well in the debate section of Speech Communication back in high school, I guess it shows. I can see theres no changing your mind on dropping the hate and trying for a new solution. It was good debating with you. Take Care.
#kthxbai
The idea that a person can’t identify problems without “offering a solution” is just another way to deflect questioning or criticism of bad ideas, and to try to shut up those who see a problem.
Identifying a problem is the step that comes *before* proposing solutions – it is a legitimate step by itself.
If addiction is not a disease, but a collection of behaviors that people learn from 1. attending 12 step meetings, 2. absorbing from Hollywood movies &/or TV shows with “addiction” storylines intentionally inserted by 12 steppers, then there is no need for a “solution” in the form of an alternative to the 12 steps. Instead of people trying to fit their life stories into the 12 step sin-and-redemption storyline (supported by government funding and agencies for 12 step pseudoscience), people can figure their own lives out for themselves.
You really don’t know what you’re talking about. Addiction is a life or death situation. Your opinions are not informed or helpful. If a person finds help in AA that allows them to make changes and lead a free and productive life, why would you take the time and effort to trash it needlessly? Your speculation without much, if any, actual personal experience is negligent. I don’t know your history but I suspect you need help but aren’t ready to admit it. In my experience this type of “bashing” comes from fear prejudice, not science or proper investigation. Play around with other topics if you want to but not with something this serious, please. AA is free, very accessible, with many groups and meetings to choose from. There is no agenda except to be helpful.
Meetings a bit sparse lately? Sowwy 🙂
Aa doesnt sell anything. It free. Cults by definition are after something. What is aa after?
I also like how you guys don’t leave a reply option on a lot of your ingenious statements.
Trish the post under this is my rebuttal to your last statement regarding MRA.
I like how you address me by name but stay anonymous yourself.
Your comments that seem to express a certain admiration for some of Hitler’s policies before WW II are disturbing. Yes, the Nazi government created a lot of jobs employing people who’d been hit by the Depression – but those jobs were manufacturing weapons and building up the army in violation of the Versailles treaty, and a lot of the money that funded the Nazi government’s programs was stolen from Jewish citizens, families and Jewish-owned businesses stolen by the Nazis.
Here’s the opening 2 paragraphs of the article quoting Oxford Group/MRA founder Frank Buchman on Hitler in the World Telegraph, Aug. 26, 1936:
HITLER OR ANY FASCIST LEADER CONTROLLED BY GOD COULD CURE ALL ILLS OF WORLD, BUCHMAN BELIEVES
By William A. H. Birnie,
World-Telegram Staff Writer
To Dr Frank Nathan Daniel Buchman, vigorous, outspoken, 58-year-old leader of the revivalist Oxford Group, the Fascist dictatorships of Europe suggest infinite possibilities for remaking the world and putting it under “God Control”.
“I thank Heaven for a man like Adolf Hitler, who built a front line of defense against the anti-Christ of Communism, ” he said today in his book-lined office in the annexe of Calvary Church, Fourth Ave and 21st St.
“My barber in London told me Hitler saved Europe from Communism. That’s how he felt. Of course, I don’t condone everything the Nazis do. Anti-Semitism? Bad, naturally. I suppose Hitler sees a Karl Marx in every Jew.
“But think what it would mean to the world if Hitler surrendered to the control of God. Or Mussolini. Or any dictator. Through such a man God could control a nation overnight and solve every last, bewildering problem.”
Dr Buchman, who is directing an Oxford house-party tonight at the Lenox, Mass. estate of Mrs Harriet Pullman Schermerhorn, returned from Europe aboard the Queen Mary, after attending Oxford meetings in England and the Olympic Games in Berlin.
Oh, and just because the Nazis used the word “socialist” in their name doesn’t make their policies socialist – they were fascists. The reason their part was named National Socialist was that the German army tasked Hitler with infiltrating the National Socialist party (because the army wanted to destroy the socialist party). After he joined, instead of continuing the initial mission, Hitler took over the National Socialist party, keeping the name, but getting rid of anything socialist about it.
The mra spoke openly against the national socialist party, which at the time was purely a political party. No one really had any idea that their rise to power would lead to mass genocide. And in case you didn’t know, Hitler did great and amazing things for his country leading up to WW2. Germany was in the dumps following the installment of the treaty of Versailles. For instance when he became chancellor in 1933 there were over 6,000,000 unemployed Germans. By the start of WW2 (1939) that number was reduced to just over 300,000. Hitler was praised by many notable sources for his economical works. In 1938 hitler was proclaimed man of the year by a small american publication you might know as Time magizine. And the buchman quote you’re referring to is from 1933, and he was praising hitler because of his fearlessness when faced with something he thought was wrong, which at the time was the degredation of his German people.
The mra spoke openly against the national socialist party, which at the time was purely a political party. No one really had any idea that their rise to power would lead to mass genocide. And in case you didn’t know, Hitler did great and amazing things for his country leading up to WW2. Germany was in the dumps following the installment of the treaty of Versailles. For instance when he became chancellor in 1933 there were over 6,000,000 unemployed Germans. By the start of WW2 (1939) that number was resuced to just over 300,000. Hitler was praised by many notable sources for his economical works. In 1938 hitler was proclaimed man of the year by a small american publication you might know as Time magizine. And the buchman quote you’re referring to is from 1933, and he was praising hitler because of his fearlessness when faced with something he thought was wrong, which at the time was the degredation of his German people.
Wow… I really like all the information. Unfortunately, science has came much farther than all these conversations. Like the genetic make up of a human Lol… There is an alcoholic gene people. It is either present or subject to mutation. Genetically, a human reacts differently when an alcoholic substance enfettered there body. AA” for reasons yet obscure , have lost the power of choice ” … That’s old data… But very on point for recent science. Good luck myth busters, let me know how the psyco babble works out for ya lol…
Wrong – there is no gene for alcoholism. Every couple of years, some researcher tries to claim to have found it, but the research has never been published in peer-reviewed journals nor replicated.
There a big ass gene in this boy
The only thing in life that is predestined are the penalties or rewards of the CHOICES I make. What people think of me is not my business. I am powerless over other people, places, things, situations and circumstances. All of these are outside of me. Happiness is definitely an inside job. Today I am okay in my own skin. I am always a work in progress, having learned how to examine myself and be able to discard my defects and continue to polish my attributes.
Whether by Lear jet, Rolls Royce, yacht, Amtrak, freight train, Metro transit, hooptie, feet or AA, so long as we arrive to a time and place in our lives when we are able to make choices which create rewards instead penalties. Any behavior is learned behavior. Being judgemental is only a matter of opinion. What people think of me is not my business.
If it doesn’t work for you, it was not meant to be. AA has helped many millions of people with alcoholism, and yes, I AM an alcoholic. I do not necessarily agree with all of the teachings, but it is what it is. A group of human beings striving for self improvement.
I wish the court system and the treatment industry would not put coercion into the mix. If a person does not agree with our teachings, no one is forcing them to attend.
As for nazi sponsors: yes, they sadly do exist and this is where the human failing come into play. Too bad the true purpose of sponsorship seems to have been clouded over. In the beginning, a sponsor was someone who helped a newcomer with starting into the fellowship. Not to be a molder of minds and de facto trainer.
Fortunately the god of your understanding has granted you the wisdom to know it’s wrong to coerce people into AA and the courage to do absolutely nothing about it.
Right on!
Is a lie about a lie the truth? Thank you for sharing your truth. I can accept your truth, but I will not adopt it. It is yours, not mine. My truth is not a lie unless I adopt the lies of others. There is only truth and lies. I cannot put my truth into words, but lies are words used to destroy truth. Lies about lies and lies about those lies, etc., are all lies. Truth will set you free. Not my truth, but your truth. Do us all a favor and find it. It can’t be found in others.
If you have a desire to stop drinking, try AA, it is dangerous not to check it out. As it is dangerous to adopt the lies of others. Find your own truth!
There’s no such a thing as each person having their own “truth”. By definition truth is true no matter whether a lot of people know it to be true, or few people, or even no one.
If ecigs help someone quit smoking, good for them. If therapy stops you from being an abusive ass hole, good for you! If trash talking hundreds of thousands of people that have been given a life they find joy and fulfilment in makes you feel better, then there is no help for that, you are just an ass hole!! Ppl say my sponsor made me make amends to ppl, it ruined my life. You are the naive idiot that ruined your life, not your sponsor! “Made direct amends to such ppl wherever possible, EXCEPT WHEN TO DO SO WOULD INJURE THEM OR OTHERS” you obviously hurt your whole family so you are the dumb ass Nazi!! And to the ones who say ‘Christians have no place in AA’…damn right!!! we say ‘God as you understand him’ not force anyone to believe your god! Do Christian churches accept baptists, atheists, agnostics, Muslims, ect!?!? Nope, its your god or get out!! AA helps unlimited amnts of ppl, back off and focus on your own lives and your own misgivings simple minded idiots!!
Yes they let you guys hold meetings in their basements. The Mormon church is rife with AA groups. Anyway, thanks for confirming that AA is not Christian even if “I’m not xtian but most members are.” Even your lies are lies. And thank you for showing that you’ll say anything to get the newcomer through the door and thanks for explaining that it’s always their fault if they don’t ‘get’ your psycho cult religion. And thanks for showing that is a religion, and ‘spiritual not religious’ is a blatant lie.
And oh yeah, Frank Buchman, founder of ‘God as you understand him’ (Oxford Group) was a Nazi sympathizer. So thanks for the opportunity to remind everyone of that. Well now I’m sure you can expect people to be lining up to find out what other tips you can give them about ‘peace and serenity’.
Meetings going well actually, thanks for checking.
A.A. Is truly a satanic cult. Most religions are “Bible/Christian” based. It’s how satan deceives, getting people to think AA is “Biblical,” therefore is devinely inspired. I spent 9 months in the rooms of AA using Jesus as my higher power. I was a believer, but not born again. When I became born again the Holy Spirit convicted me of the cult I was in and have me real power to be sober and live successfully. AA’ers need constant meetings and big book readings and sponsor talks cause the fake demonic power isn’t permanent like the One True God’s.
If you are a Christian, a real Christian, you have no business in an AA meeting.
Read Ezekial chapter 8. And see what God thinks of people going to AA meetings in his own house, each with there own “idol”
Sort of similar to the oft-repeated proposition that fascism will enter the U.S. waving an American flag and dressed like Uncle Sam.
I found A A to be a very degrading experience.
Many members in this large group were criminals who had never paid for their crimes, some even bragging of moving out of the country for 7 years to avoid accepting responsibility for their actions while preaching responsibility to new members.
They refused to believe that depression and anxiety were real medical conditions, some even making fun of people taking antidepressants.
One so called counselor even posted pictures of individuals who had committed suicide within 30 days of attending rehab.
There are other ways to quit drinking unfortunately a a is sure it’s the only way, and if it is a disease then certainly most people realize that many diseases have more than one treatment.
I also forgot to mention the chain smoking, caffeine junkies whose hands literally shook while they spoke.
I went to AA several years ago and found that it wasn’t what I needed at that time. I just kept on drinking. I had to hit rock bottom first. When I went I simply wasn’t ready for help. I felt like I didn’t fit in because, well, I made up about 25 reasons why trying to tell myself I didn’t have a serious drinking problem. I would say I got lucky when I finally got help, but it was something other than luck. I was in bad shape with my drinking. In late November I got a text from an old friend. He’s been sober for 15 years. I was drunk (of course). Par for the course, I blacked out that night. I always dreaded waking in the morning and reading texts I sent while drunk.the night before. I texted him that morning and told him I had a problem. He offered to help as much as he could but said I had to want help first. Fast forward 26 days, once again, I was drunk. Actually, I was drunk every one of those 26 days. That night I fell, hitting a piece of furniture on my way to the floor. The next thing I remember was one of my kids in my room checking to see why I was crying. I was just waking from being passed out and the pain was ungodly. That’s when I knew it, I texted my friend telling him I had hit my rock bottom. I had broken 3 ribs in my back. 5 inches to the right, I would have broken my spine. 10 inches higher and I would have hit my head. There was a great likelihood that my kids would have found me dead on the ground.
I have been sober for 71 days. I didn’t go to AA. We call what I got was divine intervention. I got one last chance.
I’ve have a lifetime ahead of me. He told me about the first day he met me years ago and told me that the amazing woman he met that day was still inside of me, that I needed to find her. And I did. I’m proud of who I am. My kids say they got their mom back.
Some experiences with AA are life changing for the best, some aren’t. The important thing everyone needs to realize and acknowledge is that someone needs help. If AA isn’t working for you keep on looking for help. Don’t give up. Tell someone you need help!
The hardest phone call I had to make that day was to my father, telling him, between my tears, what happened and that I had a serious drinking problem.
One day I hope I can somehow help people with drinking problems.
To those without a drinking problem who don’t believe in AA, try shifting your focus on helping people find the help they need. Bottom line, that is what it is all about.
Thank you for sharing your story. I’m so happy to hear of your recovery and agree with everything you wrote. So positive, so helpful and based on actual personal, experience. As you know, that’s how it works. Thanks again!
Uninformed, unfortunate lies. AA doesn’t have “counselors”.
Treatment centers do, they are not part of AA.
This guy calls AA a “scam.” Don’t most scams exist in order to fleece people out of their money? Donations to AA are completely voluntary. You can become a member without ever chipping in a red cent. IMHO this guy is WAY off base.
It’s a sin mortgaging scam. Don’t believe it? Just post your drunkalog and see for yourself.
AA may not get a lot of cash from people who attend, but it does make them vulnerable to other attendees – and sponsors – who might want to get their hands on the person’s cash, use that person’s house as a crash pad, use that person’s car or efforts to get things/do things that are not for the benefit of that individual.
But besides that, selling the Big Book – which purposely has huge type to make it have a lot of pages to look like it’s worth a higher cover price – and which is still being treated like copyright material even though it should by now be in the public domain (and there’s a case it should never have been granted a copyright as it was circulated and sold before a copyright was sought), is a scam that may not get a lot of money from each individual purchaser, but in aggregate, did amass a lot of money (which made a comfortable retirement for both Bill Wilson’s wife and Bill Wilson’s favorite mistress – as well as supporting Bill Wilson during his lifetime, while other contributing authors received no royalties)
No!!!! YOU are wrong none of this is a load.
Just typing “you’re wrong” doesn’t make it so.
Pure crap
Pure crap……
“AA may not get a lot of cash from people who attend, but it does make them vulnerable to other attendees – and sponsors – who might want to get their hands on the person’s cash, use that person’s house as a crash pad, use that person’s car or efforts to get things/do things that are not for the benefit of that individual.”
And so does religion. Even more so. Talk about a sin scam. And religions are wealthy off the very backs of the so-called sinners they claim to help.
Liquor was but a symptom. Selfishness and self-centeredness is the root of our troubles. We had to get down to causes and conditions. That’s what the steps are about. Taking a good hard look at why we were making such a tough go at life. Now, I have a life worth living without prescription or self medicating.
The article isn’t wrong, in some regards, but then it isn’t right either. Just someone’s opinion with an agenda. There are bad people in the rooms. Just like everywhere else. It’s a fact of life. Continue to be a victim or learn healthy boundaries and activities, your choice.
The steps work for me. They save me from a fate worse than death. 7 DUIs, no one hurt but myself and my family. No jail time, when there should have been. No high cost lawyers to protect me from myself. I don’t date women in the program. I try to be a better man today.
Find your truth within and stop the mental masturbation. Get a purpose, anyway you can, and start living.
From a member of Mensa
People who belong to Mensa – in fact any smart person – can be wrong.
For a classic example of a smart person who turned out to be very wrong, look up the true story of the brilliant scientist Dr. Blondot and the “discovery” of N Rays.
Get a life
Survior
Get spellcheck
I did AA for four years. It worked but at the expense and loss of a lot of things in my life. My nazi sponsor made me do the step 9 making amends to people and businesses whom didn’t have a clue I “did harm” – it was a bunch of bull crap. Those stupid amends ended up hurting my reputation and my family members reputations in a town I have lived my entire life. Those stupid amends I was forced to make ended up ruining my life. I won’t do AA ever again. Nazi religious fanatics.
I can drink responsibly. I like my high quality blanco vino, a microbrew or a nice mixed drink in moderation. I’ve changed my life with joining a health club, doing pilates, yoga and tai chi, and changing my diet. I don’t want to be fat, so I don’t drink to excess. My reward will be a new wardrobe and a long Caribbean vacation where I will be in my bikini on white sand beaches enjoying a tropical mixed drink. If I could go to a posh “treatment” center, I’d go for the pampering and go to one that talks about drinking in moderation. Thinking about never taking a drink of my favorite wine, going to a party and drinking seltzer wAter, being a bore, is not for me. AA sucked for me. I really do resent that nazi sponsor bee atch who insisted I make those stupid amends. It was really unnecessary. The 4th step? How stupid to regurgitatate everything in my past to anyone. Unnecessary and meant to humiliate.
I also lost my long term marriage because I decided to go to AA. My former spouse did not approve but the AA nazis brainwashed me. I spent more time at those stupid humiliating meetings than being a wife and mother. Also there was a Lecherous creep there with decades of AA sobriety who insisted I leave my husband and children. He did this to one other woman that I know of as well. AA is a cult. A family wrecking, psyche smashing, dangerous cult. It brainwashes people that they don’t have a choice but to attend as many meetings as possible, to fully accept all they say, attend their functions, associate only with members, and put money in their basket every meeting. I fell into it bad and it was bad for me, my family, my relationships, my kids. I’m still paying the price for all the bull crap AA did to me. I should of went to family counseling with a real professional and not a bunch of creepy drunks telling me what to do with my life. My ex and I were partying a lot, and I wanted to tone that down and I fell into AA. A decision I will regret forever. AA takes the power out of a persons own ability to believe in themselves, makes them dependent hapless sheep going to the slaughter.
Thanks for your comment. Please, tell your story everywhere. People need to hear it. It’s a very common problem, but people are afraid to admit it, for obvious reasons. One cool new site is rapevine – http://therapevine.blogspot.com/
I think the “amends” step is just another way of using people – people who’ve been hurt by someone’s past behavior being put in an awkward position of being an item on a checklist in a format (“apology”) that encourages a reflex to reply “Oh, no, that’s ok. Thanks for the apology.”
It sound like you got mixed up with the wrong people in aa and had a terrible sponsor. I have been going to meetings and working the steps for almost 30 yrs. I have been blessed with great sponsors and I have made great friend in aa. If what you are doing is working in your life ,keep doing it. Remember tho that aa ,properly worked can be life saving for some people. You claim it stole you life but in my case it gave me one. Any one reading this just remember,if you do choose aa don’t let people ruin it for you stick with happy successful people that work the ideals not people that are not practicing humility.
If you admit that it’s possible to “get mixed up with the wrong people at AA” and it’s possible to get a “terrible sponsor” then you must admit that there’s nothing about AA that guarantees success, and that it’s perfectly possible for a person to go in with good intentions and suffer bad – even terrible – results. Yet AA would have everyone – whether they attend or are just members of the general public – believe that experiencing failure in AA is the fault of the person who has been failed.
Considering AA claims “alcoholism” (& “addiction”) is a disease for which AA is the treatment, that is remarkable. If a medical doctor prescribes chemotherapy and a person’s cancer doesn’t go into remission, the medical doctor doesn’t say “rarely have we seen someone receive chemo for whom it didn’t work” and go on to blame the patient for being an insufficiently good person. If a person has, say, spinal stenosis and the surgery doesn’t eliminate the pain, the doctor doesn’t say that the patient wasn’t a good enough patient.
It’s the double standard where the claim is AA is treatment for a disease, where success is credited to AA, but failure blamed on the attendee and treated as the individual’s moral failing (as opposed to a treatment that didn’t work for a particular patient), that makes AA look like such a mean-spirited organization. This suggests that it’s less about helping people achieve a goal than it is about creating, recruiting and propagating a clique that pretends to practice “healing” rituals and to feel superior to those individuals who don’t feel they have experienced the promised results.
it’s either a disease and a treatment, in which case, treatment failures are not blamed on the patient (the way we don’t blame Susan G. Komen for having died of breast cancer), or it’s a social group that divides the world among those they hang out with and see as admirable, and those they deride. Can’t have it both ways.
Your sponsor “made you do the steps”?
Powerful dude
AA has literature that should be read and used so that those working together stay true to the intent of positive change without causing harm to others. Newcomers are not “sheep” ( shouldn’t be anyways) sponsors aren’t “God” (shouldn’t act like it anyway’s). My experiences have been very good. I hope find a way to be happy and add something good to life .
I hope YOU and everyone finds a way to be happy and add goodness to this life.
Best you don’t attend there anymore.
My life was terrible and I lost everything because I couldn’t stop drinking. We all have our own opinions about AA but I couldn’t disagree more with yours. I was skeptical at first because God is mentioned a lot and I didn’t want anything to do with that. But come to find out AA isn’t religious at all. I’ve tried everything to stop drinking and the only thing that has worked for me is AA. If it weren’t for AA, I would probably be dead by now. So believe what you want, and I’ll continue to believe that AA has the power to change peoples lives for the better.
Are you aware that outside the U.S., when people either decide or are identified as drinking too much for their own good, the standard treatment is to train the person to drink in moderation? AA, the belief that drinking to the point where it’s harmful is a “disease” and that abstaining for life is the only “treatment” – and that this requires some sort of “spiritual” commitment, belief &/or behavior is strictly an American phenomenon (with a small presence in the UK, only because of the close social ties between the UK & the US)
Human beings live up to – or down to – expectations, both their own and the expectations put on them by people around them. If a person hangs out with people who tell them that a period of drinking a lot is sure proof that the person has a disease that will kill him/her, and that its’ impossible to drink without obliterating him/herself – and sees this belief and behavior in a social group that the person either respects or wants to belong to – that person can continue to drink into oblivion until ingesting enough alcohol for a long enough time that it damages the person’s organs. All this proves is that people can engage in self-harm to a remarkable degree – but it does not prove that drinking too much is a “disease” or that hanging around in a group of people who think telling entertaining stories about what they’ve done while drinking too much is a treatment.
If you look into the studies on heavy drinkers by AA Board Member George Valliant at Harvard, he found that people who do attend AA don’t drink less than heavy drinkers who don’t attend – but – More Important – those who do attend AA have a higher death rate.
Right on! AA is full of bullshit and lies. I’ve been in it for 13 years. The big book is a bunch of crap! And beware of sponcers they tend to enjoy playing: doctor, judge, jury, and executioner. The trouble with me is I can’t be brainwashed or hypnotized by automatons reciting the big book as if it were the goddamn bible. Fuck people telling anyone what to do!!! Do what you want to do. Learned helplessness is not a “good” thing. I’ve had problems with alcohol and in turn drank the AA kool aide at times, trouble is I never truly bought any of that malarki because it’s ridiculous. And can cause more harm than good! The dirty old men alone is enough to make one’s skin crawl. My sponcer loves to threaten, she says “if you don’t stay at the group I tell you to go to and do everything I say you will never have another window of opportunity to be in this program.” The nerve of some bitches!
You call it bunch of malarkey and yet you’ve been in AA for thirteen years
It took you 13 years to come to all of these realizations? Very impressive. I’m sure you’ll be waiting in the wings when Judge Judy retires.
That is not a sponsor that is a predator who takes hostages. No has had the right to degrade u hold the secrets of sobriety over ur head. Hey, im not here to tell u that wise, benevolent sponsors are out there… Good luck.
How about a sponsor as sponge? Someone I know who owns her own house and works a really demanding job was talked into letting her sponsor, who works like a day a week, to live in her house *temporarily* and rent free. With cat & dogs and hoarder level possessions.
After 3 months of *temporary* arrangement friend tries to have a gentle conversation with sponsor about how sponsor needs to find a new place in the next few weeks – but after one sentence, Sponsor goes all door-slamming dramatic about having no notice and unfairness. Friend afraid for her property.
Another acquaintance had severe pain after colon surgery – that friend’s sponsor said the pain was friend’s “addictive brain” tricking her into using extra drugs. I drove her to the ER, where it was discovered that her colon had prolapsed, requiring surgery to repair. “Addictive brain” my ass.
Wow, …….do you have a job outside of hating something you have no real knowledge about? Do something else, please.
That is so cute… sounds like someone is in need of a program to learn how to live without having to make others feel bad
So sensitive! Grow a spine!!
As an anthropogist I respect Religion as a Human Universal.That said,I have been struggling with this liquid gluttony for about 20 years and have been in the rooms.Big Book,is not in any way a doctrine,a philosophy to live by.Simply put, self discovery and responsibility in one’s pathway in life is fundamental in learning from our bad choices(alcohole) and overall poor lifestyle ways(abuse of alcohole).
I love the satire. Awesome!
I honestly wish AA could cure me. I wish I could have some epiphany that would wake me up and make me see clearly what to do. Being the skeptical person I am, however, I don’t think that will happen. But surely some good things can be gained from it. I don’t know. One just has to be very careful!
What if the ‘good things” can be gained outside of AA and that the bad things that can come of accepting powerlessness and AA ideology outweighs whatever “good things” that can be gained in AA?
Tell me how I can attain the good things outside of AA.
If I did that, I would be doing the same thing that Bill W did – setting my own individual human thoughts on what makes a good life up as some sort of set of laws that other people should follow.
The better question is, “What does Ellen think would be good things to have or do in her life?”
It can cure you; under the direction of 2 sponsors, a home group, and the 12 steps.
I attended AA meetings twice. Both times to encourage and support friends. I never wanted a drink more than I did those two nights. Too much of anything is no good. Parents should teach their children to drink in moderation instead of abstaining which often leads to binge drinking. Do we tell overweight people to abstain from eating?
Walt
It can “cure” you? Yeah, so can making a sincere effort to just not drink. But your precious big book doesn’t say anything about that! It says you’re powerless, a “real” alcoholic and unless locked up will die or go permanently insane! I’ve gone just as permanently insane doing the bullshit that people in AA do! I would have been happier just stopping on my own. Which is essentially what I’ve done anyways regardless of AA propaganda!!
Ellen AA is but one way to lose your addiction. There are many others. I have been sober for 26 years in AA no less and I am very proud of that program and I thank the powers that be for it. If you have tried with all your might and willingness to work the 12 step program and cannot seem to recover then try something else. Whatever it is that you need to work the miracle get it done.
Honestly I have not given it my all. I am leery of aa people (long story). I appreciate your comment. But I know I need to do something. Addiction or not addiction, alcohol is a problem with me.
Work the 12 steps
You mean the Oxford Group 6 principles hacked by Bill Wilson?
If there was a way to keep drinking like a normal person I would still be out there, that is all I ever wanted. I exausted my own resources and would unquestionably be dead by now. Thank u god for allowing me to stay in my seat in aa until I found what I was chasing all along…..A life with purpose. So Mr addiction myth if aa isn’t the answer what the f#!* is…….you offer no solution so clearly this is just your opinion and it appears to be based in ignorance. ….I pray that u find your seat.
AA is the answer, at least for me. I found new meaning and purpose since I discovered AA. Sorry you don’t like my solution, but take what you can use and leave the rest.
I am not anti AA or anti anything as long as it is attended by choice. But as an airline pilot who found myself in what I (my opinion only, as they say in car commercials: your mileage may vary) found to be religious cult indoctrination after I voluntarily sought help through my employers Employee Assistance Program while using alcohol to numb myself after a series of painful events, things look a bit different. I have one choice and one choice alone if I want to keep my career: 5 years of AA and its airline cousin HIMS. So far I’ve done 2, and I can honestly say it’s been the worst years of my life. While I’ve met many great people there who have seem happy at AA, fake as I might, for me AA is pure torture and clearly religious in a very specific way (the district courts happen to agree with me on that one with 9 out of twelve having ruled that coerced AA is unconstitutional due to its religious content).
AA is like quicksand. If you try to fight it you’ll lose. Better to just lie and wait.
Lie Like the Wind
That’s what they do in every country outside the U.S. and maybe the UK (somewhat infected from American AA ideology/culture)
Being made to go and wanting to go is two different things
What about being told you will die or go insane if you don’t go?
You are wise. 19 years it has helped me understand myself my husband now deceased & our children. Keep coming back. F#$&&k em if they can’t take a joke….
Thanks Vin couldn’t have said it better myself!
Very well written article-couldn’t disagree more, but still, well written. The “voice”-your persona-is very bitter. Perhaps you’d reach a greater audience if the underlying tone of this piece wasn’t so blatantly bitter. Rudie
I know IM bitter!! Fuck those AA holier than thou hypocrites! I’ve tried it for 13 years. It’s a dumb ass program!
And how ‘s you’re program working out for you Lucy?
Lucy, you don’t have to be bitter. Your past does not have to be your destiny – you can change your life for the better. Think about what would make you happier about your life – what you’d like to accomplish, learn, enjoy – then take steps to do those things.
And don’t think that just because someone was part of your past means that you must keep them in your life and it’s on you if the relationship doesn’t work for you. If someone steals from you. lies to you, manipulates you – withdraw from that person. Life is too short to waste it on people who bring you down, or see you as a bank account/babysitter/errand-runner/punching-bag. Better to take a walk by yourself or read a good book than let people hurt or use you just because you knew them before today (that goes for obnoxious relatives, too).
We may not be able to control all the conditions of our lives – the economy, catching an infection, having a birth defect, falling for someone who doesn’t love you back. But there are things we can control – efforts to continue to learn new things, do things you enjoy, make time for people who do care about you.
Have a great day!
I’ve ready many many books on my own. I would love to talk about them. And walking daily is something else I do. I tell myself I am happy to be alone. That I don’t need anyone. But honestly it sucks. I want a companion. Even just a friend with whom I have some camaraderie. I have all that a person could ever want-an education, close family, beauty and health. Money. Wherewithal. So is it just my vivid imagination that I am missing something? Or perhaps I’m just bored. Eh??
Ellen, try what anyone who wants to meet new people would do – take a class, go to an art walk, join a book club, volunteer at a nonprofit. Check with your local public library for ideas.
it is not?
He has know idea of how the program WORKS!!!!!!!!!!! It is so nice to see a new person come in, finding THERE OWN high power, an become healthy. It is a program that has save millions of lives. it is not a cult hahahaha,, cult force’s things, this is a free will program( no drinking things that will kill you), with no one in power. he is nuts, worst then the struggling people that come in. I think he needs a meeting,, only an hour! get a grip an learn before writing what you do not know about!
Bonnie, when people are still inside a cult they think the things they are doing because they’ve been programmed are their own free choices.
Trish do you go to church?
I’m a long time member of AA. It is a volunteer run non-profit organization. There is a ceiling of how much an individual can donate. It highly deters profit motives. Many of our members were hobos on the street and now lead productive lives. They don’t care if you leave. If you can find a better way, then go for it. Our members suffered numerous trips to psych wards and emergency rooms. Cirrhosis is a common death amongst those who continue drinking. The meetings are a support group reminding the alcoholic of the consequences of drinking and a place to share and communicate the angst of living in reality. Alcoholics are escape artists that got addicted to their self-willed cure. You have,to join the “no matter what club” in order to get the strength and courage to face life’s disappointments. That means you don’t drink no matter what.
And the lie becomes the truth. Thanks for the illustration!
And AddictionMyth once again attacks a genuine and sincere comment with a smug, smarmy, condescending, and caustic comeback. I do not know what your brain was washed in , but it is very apparent that your thoughts are marinated in a bitter bile of festering hatred, fear and loathing. It is very obvious that your crusade is more about your ego and resentment of AA , then your concern with the well being of your fellow man.
And once again the AA zealot demonstrates the personal attack the newcomer can expect if they dare challenge sacred cult dogma.
And how exactly does AA have anything to do with helping your fellow man? It’s about pushing people around, favoritism, cliques and beating up newcomers. That’s not helpful to anyone!
Oh boy…And that right there is why my coerced AA is torture to me. AA for the vast majority of people (somewhere between 90-99%) is not effective. Worse, it increases binge drinking by roughly 500 % and increases death rates by 30% compared to no treatment. Google AA SHARP study.
Also the Dec 2014 DCD study showing that 90% of Americans who drink excessively are demonstrably not “alcoholics” according to the definition used int he study.
There are 90+ employees in NYC whose salaries are paid out of royalties for AA books. Also, all the rehab facilities that use 12 steps are full of staff whose salaries depend on Americans, our government and insurance agencies believing that “addiction” is a disease and that the 12 steps are the only cure.
So the idea that AA is “all volunteer” and “no one makes money off AA” is not true.
My first introduction to AA was at the age of twenty two following a drug related arrest while in treatment. At that time. I did begin referring to myself and viewing myself as an alcohol who preferred drugs. I did not have an interest in the big book (yet), but around thirty-seven I had some serious family problems and I was determined to change my ways. I embraced the big book, even memorizing parts, read it daily. A real change did occur for me. But the damage already done. I began to question God (whom I know from the Bible) due to people in AA claiming to know God but in reality they lie, cheat, use anyone who will grease their palm, put family third or forth, all the while using their sobriety date as a measuring stick for success. The truth is AA is dangerous to the mental health of those seeking help. People can change if they are obedient to the Truth, and yes it does require spiritual help, help only the Holy Spirit thru believing in Jesus Christ. Choosing a god of one’s own understanding, one’s own conception is inspired by satan himself. That is the biggest lie in the book of lies. I’m just very thankful that my life and my family’s life have not been ruined any further by this dangerous, world-wide organization.
Thanks for your honest view from the inside!
Let me tell you all just reading all this Jibberish makes me wonder if there’s any sanity in any of you!
All your ideas of god, Christian or not, are fiction. People in need of a god to believe in are weak
I have been in AA SINCE 1992 and have struggled with continous sobriety. WHY? CUZ I never agreed with the ” happy joyous and free” concept. Even if Im spirituality fit, that doesnt mean Im gonna feel like “Tiny Tim” frollicalling through the tulips,. I have drank cuz i do not like the emotional pain that life deals, (And that is what all of us go through), not just me. However, i say fuck it i know im powerless, but i want relief. it still use my pacifier, to bad for me, anf i say good luck and my hats are off to the people who live in reality. Ive tried and tried and I cannot do it. im tired and will probably not die drunk or sober. i will die knowing i am of this world but not in this world, a circle trying yo fit into a square. if that is the best i can do, than GOD BLESS ME!
You are not powerless. That’s a LIE they taught you at AA. You drink because you’re not happy. Who is? AA teaches that your drinking makes you unhappy. Again, that is LIE. Obviously.
Have a drink. It won’t kill you. Or don’t, it’s up to you. Just stop battling yourself over ‘cravings’. Hopefully you have better things to do. And if not, then find something!
have a drink ,,, it will kill you!
omg, he does not even know it is a depressant lol and progressive! never gets better if you are a person that is not able to stop drinking on there own.
I’m guessing you’re having a drink (or some other chemical ) while you’re writing this know-it-all crap. The kind of egotistical stuff your spouting is why 12 step work helps people be less of an asshole. Your an asshole!!!!!!! I sure hope your not passing down your disease to any children. But thank God they have a program for that too. Adult Children of Assholes.
AA does not teach you that drinking makes you unhappy. AA teaches that there are underlying causes to our unhappiness. And then when we drink to dull the pain of said unhappiness we find some emotional or psychological safe haven from these thoughts which leads to more and more drinking because, if you don’t have to be unhappy then why would you? So as we go along this process of drinking to “dull the pain” we find ourselves under the influence more often than not, and I think we can all agree that poeple don’t typically make the best decisions when they’re drunk, therefore we lay waste to our lives because of the decisions we make when drinking. If you’re not an alcoholic, or if you have not experienced a “bottom” then it is very hard for you to have an informed perception of being powerless. It is a very commonly agreed upon idea throughout members that through this process we become powerless over our own mind, this is because our own mind is telling us constantly to go back to the bottle to escape the pain of our anger, resentment, shame, etc. These are not things that we read and just blindly agree to, these are things and feelings, and great pains that each and every one of us has experienced and can relate to. This is why AA works, it’s for alcoholics, by alcoholics. It also clearly states repeteadly in the first few chapters of the Big Book that if you can find another way to achieve sobriety, peace, and happiness, then you’re a badass and do that shit. I’m paraphrasing of course. Btw there are like 7 billion people in the world, I’m preeetty sure there are some happy people among them. I myself know plenty of happy people, positivity breeds positivity dude, and Idk about you, but I like breeding. I would hope that you have better things to do than bring all of this negativity to a group of people who have found something they can find purpose, joy, and a great deal of peace through. Maybe journalism or some other form of writing? Idk if you specifically are the writer of this entire article but you certainly seem focused unafraid and talented.
Perhaps your problem is that you think that you can dull emotional pain by drinking – which doesn’t work. In reality, whatever mood one is in will only be magnified by drinking, so it’s best to only drink if one is already in a good mood. If in a bad mood, it’s better to not drink, and perhaps read a book or go for a walk. (This doesn’t mean you have a disease and can never drink again – just that adding alcohol to an already bad mood won’t make for a happier evening – or a happier life)
If you’ve been in AA since 1992, and you still feel like reality is too hard for you to deal with, perhaps it’s not reality that is the problem.
I was out one night having fun that included drinking. I left the occasion in my car and then realized that I had drank too much. I pulled over, stopped my car, and got out. I started walking to look for a motel since I was many miles from home. The police stopped me and asked me what was wrong. I told them that I felt that I had too much to drink and was looking for a motel. They charged me with DUI took me to jail.
I appeared in court the next morning, was fined, and ordered to attend AA meetings. At the first meeting, I did not say that I was an alcoholic because I wasn’t. I was introduced to the 12-step program and realized what it was because of my previous study of the writings of Ernest Holmes. I understand why the program would work for those who could follow it.
The program is taken from lessons dedicated to that Truth which frees man from himself and sets him on the pathway of a new experience, which enable him to see through the mist to the Eternal and Changeless Reality.
One does not have to be an alcoholic to benefit from the basics of the AA program, but if one comes to such a program because of alcoholism, and follows through, it will change his life for the better as it can for anyone.
I heard the stories of many who struggled with alcoholism and I have known some to die because of it. I feel fortunate that I was never predisposed to becoming an alcoholic. I never drank at home and stopped drinking because I lost interest in socializing with those who indulged in it. Those who discredit any efforts of AA may give opinions but show a lack of knowledge of the truth. It has helped many over a long period of time.
The program doesn’t take its lessons from “Truth” – it’s a rehashing of the Oxford Group/Moral Re-Armament, a cult that tried to pretend it was not a religion in order to make recruiting easier (Basically so they could tell potential recruits you don’t have to give up the religion you already have, join this group too!) The OG/MRA mission was to get rich, famous &/or influential people to either join, or at least say nice things about the group, so the group could have influence (and nice places to stay when they travelled)
Bill Wilson had been a member of OG/MRA, but was kicked out for dragging too many obnoxious drunks to their meetings. So he started his own group for drunks, re-using techniques from OG/MRA, AA. Sadly, OG/MRA had very effective techniques for convincing people that they needed – or could really use – what OG/MR had to offer, but not much in the way of actual accurate information or useful advice. There’s zero science to back up what AA/NA proclaims about “alcoholism” and “addiction”, and if either were a real disease, how come it’s the only disease that is “treated” by going to meetings to talk about god “as you know him”?
I am one that knows first hand the crap that goes on inside the rooms of AA. People try to out do one another with there bs and lots of talk not much action. Its alot of egos wanting attention. I will not go back to the rooms and there is some thing evil about the 12 steps
Trish, I feel sorry for you, too smart for your own good
Don’t feel sorry for me. I live a very happy life.
And there is no such a thing as being “too smart”.
AA was founded 3 years before MRA
At the time AA was founded, the group that would later be known as MRA, and later became known as Up with People, which still exists and even has a website.
The group that would later be MRA & UWP was, at the time AA was created, known as The Oxford Group (it had nothing to do with the University in England, but due to some sort of confusion the group didn’t correct on a train ride in England, was referred to as The Oxford Group in terms of their train destination. Their leader, Frank Buchman thought it sounded nice and educated and elitist, so he used the name from that time until he was quoted by a newspaper saying “I thank God for a man like Hitler…” – then the group took the name MRA. They also tried to get exemptions from military service during WW II for their young male members on the theory that MRA’s song-and-bluster shows were so important to morale as to be a significant contribution to the war effort.
6 principles of Oxford group
1) Admission of personal defeat (you have been defeated by sin).
2) Taking of personal inventory.
3) Confession of one’s defects to another person.
4) Making restitution to those one has harmed.
5) Helping others selflessly.
6) Praying to God for the power to put these precepts into practice.
If these are what you keep referring to, then I don’t understand your argument at all. These are perfectly sound practices.
The mra spoke openly against the national socialist party, which at the time was purely a political party. No one really had any idea that their rise to power would lead to mass genocide. And in case you didn’t know, Hitler did great and amazing things for his country leading up to WW2. Germany was in the dumps following the installment of the treaty of Versailles. For instance when he became chancellor in 1933 there were over 6,000,000 unemployed Germans. By the start of WW2 (1939) that number was reduced to just over 300,000. Hitler was praised by many notable sources for his economical works. In 1938 hitler was proclaimed man of the year by a small american publication you might know as Time magizine. And the buchman quote you’re referring to is from 1933, and he was praising hitler because of his fearlessness when faced with something he thought was wrong, which at the time was the degredation of his German people.