You learned that your defective, obsessive, and diseased mind is bent on its own destruction: that is simply the nature of alcoholism, your newly diagnosed affliction. Ruin is inevitable.
They exploited the desires, fears and sins you revealed during “Step Work” to exact obedience and stifle doubt.
Then they sent you out into the world to proselytize for them: to convince others they are similarly defective and obsessed even if they don’t realize it, insisting that their claim to drink just because they want to is a lie, even as you deny trying to convince anyone they are alcoholic. And you do it, because it’s an essential part of the only known cure.
Now they sit back and laugh, waiting for you to self-destruct because one day you you wake up in a good mood and forget to beseech your Higher Power for protection from your own mind’s lethal obsessions and at the end of the day when you suddenly remember and reach for the phone to call your sponsor, it’s too late because the combination of vodka you picked up on the way home to commemorate a successful day (an old habit you assumed was long since broken), and a nearly full prescription of vicodin left over from a previous surgery (whose longevity you and your sponsor recently agreed was sure proof of progress even while you wondered why she didn’t demand that you flush it immediately), has already shut down the nerve signalling pathways controlling the muscles in your extremities, thereby rendering a maligned and abused but normal brain truly and hopelessly powerless, for the first time ever.
That’s the most common modus operandi of Alcoholics Anonymous, the brainwashing cult of powerlessness that doubles as a drinking club (oh you thought AA was a treatment for alcoholism? Gotcha haha!), and it happens many times every day in this country. They thirst for your blood because it makes them stronger; your expiration increments the obscene statistic that stands as this year’s testament to the fearsome power of the same affliction that now threatens the life of tonight’s featured speaker even as he stands here before us: a humble Christian, and at one time not so long ago another certain victim of the disease, were it not for his discovery of a simple but powerful program, which worked when nothing else did, and which not only rescued his poor and admittedly imperfect soul from certain death but offered it abundant life; the initiation of which requiring only a willingness to admit the power of an undeniably deadly disease; and for its maintenance his continuous vigilance lest it return. The disease withered as he advanced in the program in which he learned to exercise rigorous honesty in all his affairs; and finally the infernal malady receded, though it left behind in its wake a shameful trail of sin, which he regrets and for which he has made amends, as our program requires. He then proceeds to recount the harrowing details. We listen and much to our surprise he is laughing and we are laughing! The recovery from our condition has strengthened us and made us resilient, and we are able to find humor in the midst of the suffering and hardship it created for us and the ones we care about most. Indeed, we are not a glum lot.
You chuckle along with the group at the stories of mischief, unaware of the high cost the cult has incurred for them, or that this obligation can be satisfied only by the blood of its members. Who will die for this man’s sins? That question never occurs to you. For now you are focused on your recovery, while you relish the warm welcome of the fellowship. Their eager hugs and knowing smiles suggest a genuine appreciation of your suffering, even if the repeated demands for ‘rigorous honesty’ about past mistakes left you demoralized. They say you’re making progress.
You recommit yourself to the Steps as our speaker advised and wait your turn for the promised miracle, wondering if you really have admitted utter powerlessness to your disease as he did, and trying to remember what he even said about that.
___________________
The Real Alcoholics of AA pour their drinks and take their seats, laughing about their new disciples. Who will be first to attain true knowledge? The bets are placed and the curtain is lifted. The demons settle in to watch an eloquent apostle of our “cunning and baffling” condition start her day in a good mood and conclude it in silent vindication. The curtain falls and the room erupts in raucous cheers: the old prank remains as young as the blood that affords it. The winner of the pool soaks in the accolades and starts to plan her merry escapade, which will only wax more lurid in its retelling. Brew sloshes and spills from a goblet raised jubilantly in its own honor.
___________________
My advice is to get out now and don’t look back. Maybe stop by your local church on the way home and see if they have any openings for service work.
And for gosh sakes, don’t mix alcohol and drugs!
AddictionMyth gratefully acknowledges the contribution of Dr. Drew Pinsky for this article.
Read more:
- Powerlessness as Religion – Only the good die young
- The Problem of the Jews: a Lesson in Brainwashing Propaganda – How AA bamboozled a country
- The Drinking Club – Watch what they do, not what they say
- Cory Monteith: The Cult of Powerlessness Claims Another Victim – Fresh from a role as a drug addict
- AA is a Pagan Cult – You got a problem with that?
- School for Scoundrels – What you actually learn in the rooms
- The Little Psychopath Could: How the Addiction Myth creates new Drug Addicts
- Addict Science – A rising Tower of Babel
All religeons begin as cults, and if there is enough followers,become one of many mainstream religions.as long as they help other beings live a better life and do no harm to others ,who cares.your beloved Christianity began as a cult in roman times.if you want to call aa/na a cult that’s fine.I may not be a member,but I know a few people who’s lives are much better since they have been going to their meetings.
ABSOLUTLY Have 31 yrs It works if u work it!
That is something that is never said by actual medical doctors treating an actual disease: “It works if you work it” – plenty of times people are compliant in their medical care and do not have successful results (for example, cancer patients who do their chemo exactly as they are supposed to and die anyway).
And medical doctors, when faced with a treatment not working for a patient do not take a judgmental attitude toward the patient as if the failure of the treatment is the result of nothing but a moral failing on the part of the patient. And, unlike the glee sometimes expressed about the tragic lives of people for whom the 12 steps do not work, medical doctors do not enjoy seeing a patient whose disease does not get better from treatment.
If you want to belong to a group where those who have what the group identifies what qualifies “good” results and demonizes anyone who does not experience “good results”, that would not in any way be treatment for a disease – that would be beliefs unsupported by science held and acted upon by believers – in other words, a religion.
the evil buzz word in AA is sniffer–stay in the group(s) for a while and you will find out what the “S” is, especially if you have XX chromosones
NEBITZ!
Yes. Early on i have seen many who have been helped. But after a few years, some therapy, building a life, self awareness sets in and the slick mind control becomes evident. NOW comes the challenge of getting free-free of all the dependency, induced or furthered guilt, shame and buried pain which AA doesn’t even approach. AS LONG AS I STAY IN I’LL STAY SICK. I’m leaving after 27 years and yes many studies show leaving with and without drinking. Get Pete Soderman-book on powerless no longer, CBT, REBT, SMART. Science has now done what Bill W. talked about on Page 31….figured it out
Could it not be that the people who have seen improvements have improved *in spite of* and not because of AA? Could it be that the people who seem to be worse off may be so because of AA teaching them that they are powerless to help themselves and have no way to control their own behavior – and not because the people who end up worse off are inferior human beings, as AA literature claims? (The bit about “rarely have we seen people fail…” if they do AA “right”.)
All religeons begin as cults, and if there is enough followers,become one of many mainstream religions.as long as they help other beings live a better life and do harm to others ,who cares.your beloved Christianity began as a cult in roman times.if you want to call aa/na a cult that’s fine.I may not be a member,but I know a few people who’s lives are much better since they have been going to their meetings.
Here’s where AA does harm: They chose to claim to be a group of “anonymous” people *not* to help the individuals who attend meetings, but to protect the public image of AA . This allows secret members of AA, such as “Dear Abby” to put AA memes into American culture, looking like they come from disinterested parties sharing accurate information, instead of being cult recruitment. “Anonymous” members have been inserting AA storylines in movies and TV shows since the 1950s.
The ideas that there are people who are powerless to control their consumption, that “substances” (over time including drugs as well as alcohol) are inherently dangerous (as opposed to the chemist’s dictum “The poison is in the does”) has resulted in the drug war treating patients with chronic pain like criminals, and pain treatment as “too dangerous” to give to children in pain. (TLC had 2 documentaries that illustrate this. In one, a girl from Ireland came to the US to have multiple surgeries for severe cranial birth defects, sawing into and repositioning her skull. Hospital staff told her guardians they would “teach her to deal with the pain”. In one about a girl in India having a parasitic twin removed, the doctor told her parents to not worry about pain, “We have medicine to take care of that.”
There is no medical evidence that treating pain of children having drastic surgery will turn them into the kind of selfish, work-shy, lazy, criminal, unfaithful spouses that have become associated in the minds of the American public with “addiction”/”alcoholism” thanks to a decades-long campaign by “anonymous” AA/NA members.
This is the harm that the cult that is AA has done to innocent people.
Wow… what on earth gave you such a hatred? I feel for ya. I attend both AA and NA. Not everyone there is well by any means and I have come across on occasion a pretty sick meeting and you may have to hit a few before you find one your comfortable with but no doubt in my mind it saved my life. My alcoholism and addiction had spiraled to a point that nothing could help me stop. I really did overdose and die. At a time in my life that I did not even believe God existed I might add. I remember waiting for my heart to beat again and suddenly realizing I was no longer breathing as well. I still remember feeling the cold sweep over as I left my body and had my judgement day. I watched my entire life flash before my eyes and then it was over and the vision I was watching shrunk down to a pinpoint like the old school computers used to when you shut them off. I was miracously brought back to life and when I awoke several hrs later I knew without a doubt God had given me another chance. I was saved and truly filled with the Holy Spirit and the next 3-4 days were the most sure that I would never drink or do drugs again and absolutely glorious right up until that 4th day that I started in on my next horrible meth runner and shortly after I no longer believed God existed. This was one of many miracles that have happened in my life and during my addiction. Cause if your an addict or an alcoholic once you finally cross that line of no return there is no amount of fear, chaos, problems, damage to others, or miracles from God that can save you. I don’t care what the scientific facts or religious beliefs are, if your there where I was your fucked. Here is what did save me. My life of chaos and misery that I absolutely hated and although I didn’t want to take that first hit so bad after a couple days sober that I’d manage now n then I still continued to do it. It got so bad that I had to go off by myself until I had that first 1/4-1/2 gram in my system. Even before and as I started up I would get violently ill and puke and dry heave until I was high. This went on for some time. I finally reached a point that was the greatest desperation I have ever reached in my life. This was several years after my death and revival and not only did I not believe God existed I had a hatred for self righteous judgemental “Christians” who don’t truly understand the bible and given me a hatred for the bible as well. In my desperation I walked into an NA room not by court order but of my own free will this time and asked how to get clean and sober. Someone who did not believe in the bible but acted much more like a “Christian” than most who claim to be showed me how to find a God of my understanding and a better way to live through the steps. I have been clean and sober for almost 14 years now and I don’t know for sure if I would still need to go to meetings but I love going. Just tonight I got to spend some time trying to give another struggling addict who just got out of prison this morning some hope he can find a better way of life. Whether he has hit the end of his rope and gets it this time around or not, it certainly did help me grow spiritually to reach out and try help another struggling human being without any judgement or expectations and I really hope he gets it. Anyway my God of my understanding started out as “something bigger than me, helped those people get clean in that room of NA I walked into”. This was my beginning of my path back to God who is still the same I found that day but just grown tremendously and I’ve long ago shortened his name to God. : ) Over time I have continued to work the steps, share my experiences with others, and through additional searching to strengthen my relationship with God I studied all sorts of philosophies, religions, and spiritual beliefs and have come back around to the bible with a complete new understanding than I ever was taught before and accept Jesus as my lord and savior, repent of my sins in his name, and everything I have learned from the bible has strengthened and added to my 12 step program and when I come across people in the rooms who are spiritually ready to hear about God and Jesus on the level that I know him today I love sharing what I know with them and occasionally even get a few to go to church to add to their program. And when I come across someone who was as fucked up as I was when I came into the rooms instead of being a self righteous judgmental prick touting my bible as a saved Christian and telling them they are going to hell if they don’t repent. In the fashion that Jesus teaches me I smile, show them love and compassion as someone once showed me and tell them some of my story as an addict and tell them that there is hope for them if they are willing to find a power higher than themselves and give the steps a try. Then I pray that if it’s Gods will that I may be a vessel of his that I only share what he knows they can handle at that moment so they feel comfortable to stay in the cult. And I pray for them that they may some day be lucky enough to find God in their hearts and accept Jesus as their savior as I have. I’m so sorry that this was not your experience as well. I love my life, I love God, I am so happy I have come to finally begin to understand what the bible is really about and accept Jesus as my lord and savior. I probably read the bible a lot more now days than the big book but I owe it all to this cult. I’m not saying that there aren’t people who get clean and sober other ways and through religion but there are many people such as me who this was the only way it worked and I know it was God guiding me to the best I was able to understand at the time gently back into his grace. If your a “Christian” passing judgement or telling some struggling addict or drunk that AA or NA isn’t the answer and they are going to hell you’d best be careful or you may have a little surprise in your judgement day conversation.
May God bless you ALL!
Well said. And I agree I found in the church judgement ppl while in the meeting ppl who knew where I was coming from, plus with a sponsor I had someone to call and have hold me in a hug as I bawled by eyes out because I was going to prison for past choices while I was high and/or drunk and that was 2 1/2 yrs after getting sober/clean and shortly after I had gotten my 4 kids back. I had to walk away from them to clean up the wreckage of my past I did 19 months on a 5 yr sentence because of good behavior. I now run a animal rescue and am trying to learn about a god of my understanding. If I had to go with the god of the bible I wouldn’t be able to do it because my god will be a loving God not a vengeful god.
You got it! Thank u so much for taking the time to show love to that guy who is calling AA and NA a cult… A CULT!? WHAT? Those rooms were provided by God! Jesus’ Love and forgiveness can be seen in many of those in recovery! Some others maybe not so much. But they DO believe in a higher Power which IS God as they understand Him. Where does all that servanthood humility and love come from? If that guy just takes the time to TRULY get to know Jesus through the Bible…and also goes to meetings regularly for a year he will know in his heart that AA and NA are God-given! Thank u! God bless u!
You got it! Thank u so much for taking the time to show love to that guy who is calling AA and NA a cult… A CULT!? WHAT? Those rooms were provided by God! Jesus’ Love and forgiveness can be seen in many of those in recovery! Some others maybe not so much. But they DO believe in a higher Power which IS God as they understand Him. Where does all that servanthood humility and love come from? If that guy just takes the time to TRULY get to know Jesus through the Bible…and also goes to meetings regularly for a year he will know in his heart that AA and NA are God-given! Thank u! God bless u!
Please see my April 22 12:08 comment above. I want free of “recovery”, all addictions under control (chemical and behavioral), my will back etc. I want to grow in love and kindness not fear and judgment all my life. But SO Much AA disempowers…We have a will, a mind, and with therapy, motivation and goals we become ALIVE. Look inside for answers not outside. I’m deprogrammiiiinnnng!! The first “how it works” is documented to “sell you” points a, b, and c. Oh well to each their own…..I just know i’ve been aa 27 years-now time for a life change. Love to all. Little Rock Larry.
I didn’t need AA to tell me I’m a alcoholic. I figured that out on my own through 10 years of wasted life. Five years sober I had a few beers before I knew it I was back to a pint of 80 proof a day hiding and lying about it. Going to AA right now is keeping me sober. A real alcoholic can talk themselves into drinking again and again, talking to other alcoholics lets you know your not alone, if it’s a cult I’m in.
I would like to start by saying that I understand and feel your pain. For a long time in early recovery I thought AA or CMA was a cult like group. However after 3 years of sobriety I have learned there is nothing cult like about it. If you actually follow what the steps and traditions teach you, the program is about attraction not promotion. So I am not sure what meetings and people you surrounded yourself with but they don’t sound like very good people to begin with.
AA & CMA have given me my life back. All I had to do was surrender and take a look at who I was and work on somethings the kept me using day in and day out. The rooms of 12 step fellowships are by no means a monopoly on getting sober, staying sober and keep your life on track. Its just 1 of many proven ways to make that happen. It works for some and doesn’t for others.
I hope you find what your looking for, but bashing a program that truly helps and allows people to change their entire lives, well doesn’t make you sound like a good person to be around anyways.
Good Luck!!!
You started thinking it was a cult then after 3 years think it’s not a cult?
This is not exactly evidence that it’s not a cult – in fact, it’s evidence that you are in such a state of cognitive dissonance that you can no longer say the truth: It Is A Cult.
Wow…
I am praying to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ that your eyes be open! AA and NA are absolutely 100% NOT a cult!!!! May God bless u with clarity. 🙂
Amen. If a Dr is truely honest w/ himself he will Relize how powerless he really is and he can’t cure no Addict/Alcoholic. Drs got big big egos. I’ll pray 4 dude. Good stuff
Don’t understand if you don’t like AA then don’t go to it I don’t know what meetings you went to but they weren’t where I go. If you got to tear something down look at your self you are obviously a very ugly person that needs to be rebuilt
Wow…just wow!
Thank you GOD-for AA, Celebrate Recovery, Skills for Life, my family, Calvary recovery center, my church family, my friends (alcoholic and not) for just loving and supporting me and helping me on my journey of living life different, better…Sober.
God can use anything and everyone to to carry out his purposes and these are just some of the gifts he has given me.
Well said!
Sounds like a bible thumper to me. Besides my Big book and your big book are quit different. My book makes suggestions in my recovery. Yours says, Do or perish in hell. I think I’ll take my book thank you very much. Your a hack/
“We must have faith 24 hours a day or we perish.” That’s more extreme than any bible I’ve ever read. I love when a BB thumper say I’m the religious nut.
I’M CURED. Let’s look at this in another manner. I used to be an alcoholic. I drank every day for 14 years. It was how I medicated myself. I started the day off drinking & ended the day drinking.
I haven’t had a drink for over 17 years. I have no chips and I didn’t attend AA.
This is how I did it. First I recognized my drinking as a sin & not a disease. Second, I remembered God said he would never tempt you beyond your ability to change. I prayed and held God to his word. I prayed and prayed. One morning I felt tremendous peace and knew that was the day God was going to deliver me from that part of my sinful nature.
I have God’s strength in me and no more temptation. I have to say God has performed a miracle in me. One must trust Gods word and he will set you free.
AA does not claim to be the only way to get sober. God bless you that your journey has worked for you. AA happens to work for many but the program does not claim to have all the answers. I am grateful that it has been a blessing for me for the past 30 years. And I’m not getting older, I’m getting better! This deserves a lol! Have a great, happy, sober life, you’ve worked for it with God’s help.
And again you’ve shown that ‘addiction’ and ‘sobriety’ are religious concepts, not medical. It’s not a ‘disease’ even if both AA and ISIS claim drinking is caused by dishonesty and faithlessness.
And acceptance is the answer to all my problems today. When I am disturbed, it is because I find some person, place, thing or situation – some fact of my life – unacceptable to me and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing or situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment. Nothing, absolutely nothing happens in God’s world by mistake.
Ok if drinking is a sin explain the wine at the last supper also explain the wine in Catholic Church I didn’t ask to get cancer and I didn’t ask to be a junkie and loose myself and rob and everything I did but if I walk in the church dressed the way I dress biker gear with all my tats I’m sure I’ll be judged by those Christian types but in aa/na they understand and don’t judge. To be honest how are we a cult and the church isn’t. Aa/na :quote: drink/drug again and you will die end result. Church: quote: repent don’t think it because that as good as doing it , we are all sinners and only the righteous shall know ever lasting life, judge not you have 10 commandments which are law to be obeyed. We have 12 steps which are a suggestion to a way of living a better life. We make up for our mistakes to the actual ones we hurt or their families in stead of sitting in a little box saying opps forgive me I’ve sinned and never facing your victim to say sorry . Also aa/naer’s know if we do pick up again we will be right back where we left off while those who think they have been cure die when they go to have a drink since they were cured.
amen,pal! BTW,are you familiar with Alcoholics Victorious?
I quit drinking. Case closed.
I hope you’re taking credit for your accomplishment.
No one solution is perfect. My life was a disaster and if I continued down the road drinking and using the way I did I’m sure I’d be dead or in prison. AA works for me. My home group is not a ‘drinking club’. I don’t feel anyone in my group is out for new blood. The big book and the steps were tools that helped me see that I had the wrong approach on life: It helped me see that I am NOT always right, and my way is not THE only way. It taught me to right past wrongs, and opened my eyes to how much I really have to be grateful for everyday of my life. I have to agree with Bill M., I don’t care what you call it or what you think of it, my sober life is far better than anything I had before. Thank you GOD and thank you AA!
OK so “GOD” and AA helped you take responsibility for your life and grow up and be responsible. Fine. But childhood is not a disease. Please stop trying to brainwash the newcomers that they are going to die or end up in jail if they don’t join your cult.
I don’t know about you but my brain could do with a bit of washing.
This guy is a hater. I don’t care about his opinion. I read a sentence here and there and remembered the most important AA Saying. ” Some people are sicker than others” this guy is a perfect example. I guess we’ll see him at the bar, through the window or walking by sober.
But remember Doc we’re saving a seat for you!
What a douche bag this doctor is!!
Every1 is a great example ,,some what to b and in this case what NOT to b
Perfect example of cult think. I couldn’t have said it better. Everyone who disagrees is an ignorant hater. You forgot the other most important AA saying, “patience and tolerance.” Or the other most important AA saying “nothing pays off like restraint of tongue and pen.” Keep coming (going), they have “a wrench for every nut.” (another most important AA saying)
AA never once calls alcoholism a disease and for good reasons
Really? What about all the discussion of disease in the Big Book?
Also, read some of the other comments by people defending AA on this site – plenty of them think it is a disease.
I pray for you all who are brainwashed into this cult. Please just take a moment and search your soul and heart . you know the truth deep down inside, if you ask god he will reveal it to you . please don’t throw your souls away for nothing . the only salvation is in our saviour Jesus Christ who hung on the cross for us and bared the burrened of all humanities sin past and future. He has so much love for us even those who would spit in his eye. All can he saved no matter your past. You need faith hope and love. You must sew good seeds to harvest good crops. Please I beg all and any who read this give Jesus our Lord and saviour a chance. He will change your life for the better and he above all other things in this world truly knows your heart and what will truly make you happy. It is better to he a servant in heaven then a king in Hell. I have made many mistakes myself and I will continue to make them but that’s the point of this life is to learn from them and prepare us for everlasting life. I’m not judging anyone her or angry at all, mainly just sorrow that so many of my brothers and sisters have been led astray . may God he with you all. And I love you all
I come at the issue from a completely different point of view – I’m an atheist, and what I look at is the lack of science to support the claim that alcoholism (addiction) is a disease, as opposed o the massive evidence that what is called a “disease” in contemporary America is a collection of bad behaviors – behaviors that the individual can change with proper motivation (see the work of Dr Carl Hart), and re-working of the life story of the individual “alcoholic” (“addict”) to conform to the AA/NA/anyA storyline. (Memories are vulnerable to deterioration over time, and are reworked with subsequent information, emotions and changes in self-image)
Reworking one’s lifestory to maximize the “badness” of the before and the “goodness” after a conversion process initiated by joining a group is a standard recruitment and member-retention method used by cults (particularly religious cults). There’s not medical condition that requires such a procedure.
Also, try naming a disease other than “alcoholism”/”addiction” where a self-diagnosis is recognized by medical authorities as proof the patient has the disease (in real evidence-based, scientific medicine, saying “I have…” (diabetes, brain tumor, Lyme disease, malaria) will reduce the chances that the doctor will believe the person has that disease.
One other troubling thing – everyone in America these days seems to take as Gospel truth diagnosis of people no longer alive, done by people with not-good reputations for telling the truth (I’m thinking specifically of criminals on shows like Lock Up saying their parents or grandparents were “alcoholics/”addicts”).
I think the reason for the self-diagnosis is because alcoholics tend to be very hostile to any criticism of their drinking, so they need to get to the point where they can admit they have a serious problem before any real change have a chance of occurring. There are, of course, genetics that predispose one to alcoholism as well. And fMRI will show how an alcoholic’s brain lights up in a different way from a non-alcoholics when viewing a picture of liquor, so there are bodily changes if one is willing to look for them. The author of this site obviously has an agenda so I doubt he will be open to critical evaluation of any evidence that would dispute his claims, however.
I, as a member of AA, am very open to any other options that could keep me sober. It takes a lot of time and effort to do it this way, although we do have a lot of fun as well. Most of us don’t like all this self-searching and serving others, it runs counter to most alcoholic’s nature. But we do it because our lives get so much better if we do. If you have another way, I’d love to hear about it!
Sorry, that doesn’t fly. Nobody really likes to be criticized, whether they drink or not. A lot of people don’t want to be diabetic or give up carbs & sugar, but if someone walks into a doctor’s office & claims to know they’re diabetic, with no blood or urine tests to back them up, the doctor doesn’t say, “Great, you’ve accepted that you have a problem.” The doctor will take as a base assumption that this is a hypochondriac until proven otherwise.
Atheism is a fools guide to nowhere. Believe in something you fucktard!! Going back to the subject….alcoholism is a disease of the mind not the soul. Two types of consciousness …con and sub. Each with their diffetent mode of function. Surround yourself with people who’ve been in your situation and it helps. People who disagree are fucking assholes with a alternative motive
Trish….go fuck then kill yourself… You are worthless and ignorant. The world is poisoned by shits like you. Being former military I can tell you one thing! Don’t even try, wrap a rope around your neck and drop. It’s peacefull they say and you deserve it!
Wow, ex-military member, you seem to be so even-tempered and tolerant – not.
Whatever you’re doing seems to make you a very angry person. I’m sure Christ would be so proud if he knew.
You’re a fucking idiot
To Anonymous who said “go fuck then kill yourself” you need to find some new beliefs dude cause you are so screwed
Lol you believe in Christ…which had no more provable evidence than faster than light travel. You are ignorant to the fact that if God does really exist…then why create a race of liars, rapists, cheaters, and stealers? Makes no sense. If I’m god of all knowing and love why in the hell would I create a race that is beneath me? Take into your heart, if you’re going to create something, (like a child) wouldn’t you want I create something better?
I see how lack of judgement and intelligence made you comment. Sometimes the smartest minds are the most ignorant. Ego and pride take hold. One example is this billshit splilled by this original author. There is no god only circumstances that lead up to your demise.
You are fucking stupid , and anyone else who agrees is equally stupid and simple minded. Don’t like it? Kill yourself. Don’t ruin life for the rest of us
That is a heartless suggestion. Do the 12 steps really make you a happier and more accepting person? Doesn’t look that way.
Cussing strangers on the internet and suggesting they kill themselves is not compatible with optimal mental health. Maybe you should talk to someone about why you are so angry at people you don’t even know, just because they don’t share your current opinions/worldview.
Unlike your suggestion, I do not wish you harm or suicide.
Thank you Trish. This is more than an idle threat. As you know, I believe that AA has killed millions this way to protect its franchise on mischief. They bully people into suicide and call it ‘the tragedy of addiction’.
Nobody should be told to “go kill yourself”, especially by someone who hides behind the Username “anonymous” when they’re not doing anything remotely connected to the hactivists who are currently putting their skills to work shutting down Daesh (Islamic State thugs) web traffic.
If someone else holding an opposing view to yours on a website is “ruining your life” you need a new life… seriously
All I know is aa saved my life.
If that’s all you know, maybe it’s time you signed up for some adult education.
Too bad for the rest of us. Asshole.
I asked your God for thirty yrs to save me as I lost the only ppl in my life that kept me alive. As I sat alone because no one wanted me around II tryed your religions and was judged in more ways than I can count. I walked into an aa meeting at felt for the first time in my life like someone understood I think I’ll skip religion and stick to naAa spirituality
You have no idea what you are talking about. I was never sent out to proselytize for AA. I never tried to convince anyone they were an alcoholic. Your whole article is full of holes. Have you ever even attended an AA meeting? No one ever forced me to conform to anything.
Whoever wrote this article is totally fucking nuts !!!!!
Have absolutely no idea of what they speak….
Wow. The author is in a bad place. Angry, critical, fearful, judgmental, opinionated, ignorant, disconnected, selfish and uncomfortable with things he/she cannot control. This person is always the critic trying to project their opinions on other and use self will to navigate life. Reminds me of many alcoholics. To the author: AA and the steps mean different things to different people. The suggestions can be taken or rejected as individuals feel. You, represent all that is ugly in the mirror of a broken person. It’s not always what it appears. Sobriety or stopping is only a piece of the puzzle. The problem is the inherent or socialized character defects. No one is here on earth or anyone in the universe to both listen to your arrogant fat mouth, or fix your obvious manifestation of selfish arrogance. That’s a you problem. One day you may recognize the joke is on you and you are the flawed person. How dare you question others journey as long as it’s personal and works for them. I hope you find peace in your anger and hatred is transformed to humility. For now, you are just an asshole like all flawed humans.
If you’re wondering why your sponsees are less willing to ‘take suggestion’ lately it’s because idiots like you are demonstrating publicly your brainwashing techniques. If the sponsee disagrees just insult them and call them insane, arrogant and bitter. Sorry but you’re not at a meeting now. Your skillz are ineffective out in the real world. You say you are powerless to alcohol at your meetings, but out here you are powerless to AddictionMyth! (Oh you now claim that you are not a member after all. You will all deny her.)
Wow, spoken like a true blue brainwashed AA member. It appears you are angry and can no longer think for yourself. Same boring verbatim over and over, meeting after meeting. I thank God I’m out of AA and have a great successful life without your cult rituals. Makes me sad to think of many who can no longer think for themselves and actually believe they can’t stay sober without AA.
You just described yourself and every other AA member I’ve ever had the displeasure of knowing. Funny how you people all do the same things.
Yeah, he has some massive resentments going on for sure. I was going to suggest doing a long-form tenth step on the matter, but that’s just my sense of humor :).
WoW- “you represent all that is ugly in the mirror of a broken person ” well thanks for projecting your personal opinion on people. I’m glad no one has to take to heart “your arrogant fat mouth” you mental defect who can’t even see your own arrogant self in a mirror cause apparently you are too blinded by your own awesomeness to notice you aren’t. I just hope you don’t question my personal journey in needing to respond to your bullshit because it works for me same as you apperently
So you didn’t finish your stepwork – step 12:
Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
That is the definition of proselytizing. If you put proselytize into a search engine you will see at the top of the page:
convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to
I think you are trying to cleverly twist the words to suit your agenda but it is transparent. “Attraction not promotion” is our code on that kind of stuff. If you see someone promoting AA or trying to force it on someone, that does not fit anything I have been taught. Most active alcoholics will do the opposite of what someone tells them to do anyways, so anyone with some experience will know that attempting to “convert” would just push them away and possibly ruin an opportunity for them to get sober. It would be really selfish to try and do that.
Not “trying to twist words” – just showing that the words say what the words say.
WE TRIED TO CARRY THE MESSAGE TO OTHER ALCOHOLICS. Tried and alcoholics let’s see I do not know if you are an alcoholic unless you tell me u are once I know and you show interest in a different way of life I’ll then share my experience strength and hope and if you shut me down then at least I know I tried . But all I’ve ever seen from so called Christians is she doesn’t believe the same way I do about god so she must have satan in her. I studied many different cultures and long ago beliefs even before Christ. Christianity was made up long after other religions who have a different name for their god . No one group of ppl are right because no two ppl are the same we all have different thought process. So now what
Trish—all those people assailing you with foul tongued epithets need to have their mouths washed out with a dollop of dirt!
Hi Anonymous,
I do so appreciate your kind words. It’s nice to see that my words reach someone who doesn’t respond with ignorance and insults.
But I am fine with letting their comments stand. Their words just show all the world what the actual results of believing in the unscientific, mean-spirited and outdated claims of the 12 step machine.
Thank you. I agree. I do feel alcoholics in AA meetings tend to sit there years after they should have recovered. The find relief in the friends that have the same issues. I get that. But eventually I think true success is being sober and not obsessing about your past addictions.
Word.
There’s so many interesting things to do, learn, discover and experience. If the only thing AA/NA/anyA does is teach people that the best place for them is sitting in a room full of Aers drinking bad coffee, how does that make their lives any better? It just sounds like an endless holding pattern and possibly an obstruction to personal growth.
Well stated Bob
Hello,How is life
Life is good! I have a happy marriage, a nice little house and a sweet orange kitty. I’m fortunate enough to get to do what I love – art & jewelry-making – rather than being stuck in a job that I hate. I have a few dear friends that I can really trust. And my husband was talking to me last night about going to the south of France in the near future.
I hope things are good for you, too, Deon Saile.
I assume you have at least attended such meetings, if not, to speak on them would be entirely ignorant and the need to read further would be completely wasted on your life.
No one has ever sat in a meeting on accident, Chances are, you are an alcoholic, not for me to decide though.
I’m sorry to see this message being spread, it is highly inaccurate, to accuse aa of being a cult is, well, comical.
people meeting for a common purpose and program they have all accepted, and then attempting to spread such a message to others afflicted as they were. What an awful sounding thing?
people using a higher power and making new relations with people trying to grow along spiritual guidelines? My god it’s an uprising in America, Can you imagine these people coexisting in society with no issues at all, getting jobs making amends for past behaviors and then giving back to their local community? All the while attempting to become something they never imagined before. Sounds absolutely awful.
not.
I find that you would be much happier with a neighbor who attended meetings and worked a program, then one who was wasted 24\7.
But hey, way to go for bashing the highest success rate ever received for addiction treatment in the world. It does take a certain deep rooted insanity that I fear few possess.
Highest success rate?
No.
Try a “success rate” identical to the rate of spontaneous remission. In science-based medicine, that’s evidence of a Zero success rate and taking credit for those who would have quit anyway.
Hey Trish if people would quit anyway then why are there so many people who have been addicted for 20, 30, 40, and even 50 years? Is it that on their death beds they are going to quit? A little too late don’t you think?
The attempts to debunk the success of AA must be based on the number of AA members who fall off the wagon during their lives after joining AA. I’ve one friend who joined AA 30 years ago. He briefly relapsed 14 years ago but has been sober since then. But I suppose anti-AA folks would count him as an AA ‘failure’? All I know is that without his determination and with AA’s support, he’d probably be dead by now. The person who wrote this screed against AA obviously has an agenda to sell. Suggesting that AA members a really drinking buddies is more than absurd — it’s a malicious lie.
AA is a drinking club. Don’t believe it? Just post your drunkalog and see for yourself. Ah, you are not actually a member of AA. No one is anymore. You will all deny her.
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I went to a 12 step rehab I have taken out of it what I need to stay sober over 400 days
I guess I forgot to say thank you…
yw 🙂
you are such a bitch anonymous he was only trying to help
Matt D just made me down a bottle of vodka- thanks for the incentive and god bless bastard
fuck you I’m in pain
you worthless bastard
suddenly I find myself very thirsty and in need of escape
What kind of man baits people that are, or have been, down on there knees in desperation (while you troll for drunkalogs) and then just beats up on them while hiding safely in anonymity? Bullies like you are the saddest form of a Man. You are less then a neddle mark.
What kind of people abuse and exploit vulnerable newcomers, then tell them they are powerless and wait for them to die? AA members, that’s who. AA is starting to lose its stranglehold on the American psyche, and when that happens all the liars and cheats in your drinking club will have no sanctuary. Repent now!
The AA program is a program of WILLINGNESS, SELF-FINDING and a SUGGESTED manner of living. It also teaches MORALS which you seem to be missing out on. Those who relapse are those who do not really try and are unwilling to have an open mind, and they are certainly mourned not scorned. Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion.
Yeah, and the Medieval Catholic Church didn’t confirm infants as they claimed the persons being confirmed were speaking for themselves.
But choose not to be confirmed, or after confirmation deviate from the Church’s rules or edicts, and you’d be subject to some pretty horrific treatment.
No body is waiting for anyone else to die in AA . In fact AA professes a way to live life on life’s terms and get off the booze and become something. What a ludicrous statement.
Sounds like you lost balance and went way off the religious end. Get a grip.
and what are you ofering??
A.A. works period !!! Nobody needs to defend it!!!
They why are you posting here?
It may work for a few at the expense of no longer thinking for themselves and cutting themselves off from real genuine nice normal people without some sick agenda through manipulation and sucking the potential life from a person who just needs a little help with addiction issues. AA is the worst possible way to go, much more damaging than good.
Yes what kind of AA you you been at?never heard or seen such a thing. For less than 10% of my income I am offered a way to live spiritually, happy and free of drama, which is just another word for bad behavior.
LOL!!! Ya right. It’s your way or no way. AA or jails, institutions or death period. Very dumb and narrow minded, trying to get vulnerable people to buy into your garbage. no one I ever met in AA seems to have a mind of their own. Their brains get stolen and warped by the the cult members’ mentality. No originality in that twisted robotic crew. Many members can no longer function in mainstream society. Weirdos
Wierdo. I’m sorrycaa/an pissed in your Wheaties
That’s why I sought AA. Now you are starting to understand what the doctors have said is a disease. When a person gets to this point. You nailed it
But getting high all day or drunk all day you’ll still except me into mainstream society? Good because your the first one I’m robbing and fucking off if I ever decide to get loaded again
Yes
All of this sounds confusing and i do know this God’s not the author of confusion. So it seams all the back and forth seams ego driven. You know Edging God Out AA has helped millions of people over come a hopeless helpless state of mind and body also a spiritual malady. That’s no accident I’ve seen non believers come to believe go to church some just pray etc. My point is they have a relationship today let them have it. I mean it is a personal one i love all of you on this page
Fascinating how much energy it took to come up with this nonsense. Millions of alcoholics and problem drinkers have found a solution for their problem over the last 79 years. There is no dues or fees to be paid. No obligations to be met. You can join or not join the choice is yours. There is no claim to be the only way to recover, most have tried a variety of different ways, and if they worked then we won’t see them in AA. And that’s ok, in the end it’s the well being of the individual that’s most important.
I can’t help but wonder why the writer of the article is so determined to tear AA down. We don’t promote AA, we don’t push abstinence for anyone, we don’t require dues OE fees, you’re a member if you say you are. We have no affiliation with any organizations, instutions, nor do we belong to sect or denomination and don’t endorse or oppose any causes. I guess the reader will have to judge for themselves who has the agenda. If this program works for the alcoholic then that’s good and if it doesn’t then I guess the writer of this article will be happy if some poor soul died and proved his point. He can point to them and say, “See, it didn’t work for that one. I was right!” And continue to ignore the ones that it did work for.
AA/NA may not have set dues, neither does the Catholic Church (which doesn’t seem be to be hurting for money and has huge collections of art, real estate, elaborate buildings, etc). There are nearly 100 people in NYC alone who earn a full time living from the publishing/reprinting of AA’s Big Book.
But the thing is, AA/NA/allAs’ membership rates are declining, and you know where people go now for “addiction treatment”? Rehab centers that not only cost money to go to, but also, thanks to mental health parity rules in the ACA, have to be paid for by medical insurance.
and most treatment canters still follow a 12 step program as suggested by the AA PROGRAM…HMMM
I get so tired of people with addication talk aganist aa/na ca. they are still battling the disease but talk about the 12 step programs. Because they don;t won;t to get sober. They protect their drugs with all their might. People wake up
I don’t have an addiction. I lead a happy, law-abiding, productive life.
I don’t think you have an addiction, either, Anonymous.
I think people who say they have an “addiction” don’t have a disease, they have an excuse to use to get their family, employers & parole officers to give them another chance after demonstrably bad behavior.
yep Im agree,
maybe the writter can’t make it 🙂
I am an addict I have an addiction I am in recovery therefore the desieze I did not ask to have (just like the cancer) is in remission. And hopefully by using the tools I’ve been given(12 steps) I will not have to battle it again, just like using the chemo and radiation I was given my cancer will not come back again
Way to tell em K
AA makes no claims, makes no demands nor requests-ever!!! We are just everyday people afflicted with a problem that we cannot shake by ourselves. We share our experience strength and hope with each other and support one another through identifying with each other aiding in the overcoming of our sense of aloneness and isolation.
People can have as much of AA as they want or as little. We are not affiliated with any specific faith or belief. Here athiests, agnostics, christians, taoist, buddists, native americans and anyone from any country or belief is welcomed and treated with courtesty, kindness, respect and love.
I fear your lashing out at AA or any other Group is a result of your trying to feel better about yourself at someone elses expense and maybe a way to drum up more business for yourself. Either way, it is clear to me that you have alot of past bitterness and hostilities towards this Fellowship and perhaps God and all of this is stemmed from your own personal experience.
In the end,, even if this was a Cult and I were brainwashed, it is far better than the life I had previously….Thankyou God and AA.
Bill M
Coosbay, Oregon