The Drinking Club

First of all, AA is *not* Christian. It is pagan. You can choose any Higher Power (god) you wish, and then you pray to it to remove your “cravings”. The First Commandment: You shall have no other gods before me.  New AA members are often encouraged to choose inanimate objects or even the group itself (“Group Of Drunks”) as their HP.  AA “theology” is incompatible with Christianity, even if many meetings take place in church basements, and even though some members insist it’s Christian.

Secondly, AA is a cult. Of what? Well as with most cults, just look at what they say — it’s the opposite of what they do. For example, a Satanic cult will praise The Father of Light in public, but then exalt Satan (Lucifer) in secret ceremonies.  An apocalyptic cult will eschew lust (in preparation for “The End of Times”) and then marry off teenagers to old men.  AA will renounce drinking and then its members will go out and get plastered.

That’s right: AA is a drinking club.


Well just look at the published literature: AA does not reduce drinking over no treatment at all, and actually exacerbates it in young people.

But AA is supposed to prevent drinking! Yes but they’re a cult. That’s the point — they do the opposite of what they say. (The hallmark of a cult member is steadfast belief in the tenants of the cult regardless of the objective truth.)

So AA is actually a drinking club, and their purpose is to promote the myth of addiction as cover for their drinking.  You must confess this if you want to attend: “I am powerless over alcohol.” If you don’t say this you are not welcome. This is classic brainwashing technique. It turns a healthy (but possibly lonely or drama-starved) normal drinking guy/gal into a full-fledged addict.

Classic brainwashing technique. And your disease will lead inevitably to “jails, institutions or death.” But don’t worry we have the cure. Just choose a Sponsor and follow the Steps…. Expect to relapse about 7 times….

So yes, AA is a brainwashing cult that promotes the Myth of Addiction to justify their relapses (and the ensuing fun/sex/drama/mischief). Of course, the stories in the Big Book depict alcoholics as innocent victims of a disease who get drunk and then go home and play solitaire through their tears. But it’s pure fiction (yes, like the Bible), designed to deflect attention from the simple truth. The founder, Bill Wilson, was a notorious philanderer both before and after his sobriety.

Now of course, some alcoholics are not brainwashed into it. They are just plain old liars. They are easy to spot because they will start their drunkalog with something like “I was a born liar.”  And then proceed with the raunchy details of the mischief that ensued from their “uncontrollable cravings to drink.”

Alcoholism is not a disease.  It is modern-day demon possession: the religion of the church of Alcoholics Anonymous, a drinking club for cheaters, rogues, and liars one small crisis away from their next “relapse”.  Also attending are the “old-timers” who recount an embellished history of their own binge/abstinence play (usually lasting through middle age), and proclaim their eternal gratitude: “I was completely hopeless and AA is the only thing that ever worked for me.  It gave me a life I never dreamed possible!” © And finally the life blood of the organization, the newcomers: impressionable court-carders and a mix of the lonely and vulnerable who come in search of companionship and relief of distress, are brainwashed into compulsive drinking and drug use by the cult of powerlessness, and bullied for sex or money.  Sponsors uncover and exploit insecurities (“Step Work”), and feed the growing desperation with an impossible promise: “Keep coming back; it works if you work it.”  They take bets on who will die first (AA Thirst Games) and tout the high mortality rate of the cult’s members as scientific proof of their disease via the National Institute on Drug Abuse.  The survivors of this last group will eventually leave in anger, bitterly criticizing the cult without fully understanding why, and may eventually find their way to deprogramming operations like SMART and SOS.

Don’t believe it?  Check out the Meetings Blog.  Or go to your local AA meeting and see for yourself!

Ready to confess your fake addiction?  Addiction will not end until YOU come clean.  Post your drunkalog as a comment below, or send to for inclusion in My Fake Addiction.

284 thoughts on “The Drinking Club”

  1. so much hate?? I was once restless, irritable, and discontent… when not drinking. You sound just like one of us alkies (when we don’t drink). We will be there for you when you are ready for the solution to your misery. btw the solution is GOD Almighty…

    1. Exactly. Most people are perfectly good at being miserable without drinking to excess and claiming they just can’t help it. So please explain, how is alcoholism a disease and not demon possession? Because the cure sounds mighty like an exorcism to me.

  2. Alcoholism is a malady; that something is dead wrong with us physically; that our reaction to alcohol has changed; that something has been very wrong with us emotionally; that our alcoholic habit has become an obsession, a obsession which can no longer reckon even with death itself. Once firmly set, one is not able to turn it aside. In other words, a sort of allergy of the body which guarantees that we shall die if we drink, an obsession of the mind which guarantees that we shall go on drinking. Such has been the alcoholic dilemma time out of mind, and it is altogether probable that even of those alcoholics who did not wish to go on drinking, not more than five out of one hundred have ever been able to stop before AA.

    1. This is pure Big Book dogma. You are so brainwashed it’s funny. Have you ever had an original thought? The only truth here is that there is something very wrong with you emotionally: You are lying. If you would tell the truth about why you are drinking (or holding everyone else hostage to your threat of ‘relapse’), then your ‘disease’ would be cured instantly.

      There is no proof that there is anything physically or medically different among alcoholics, and the allergy theory has long since been debunked. The most salient characteristics of alcoholics are high anger levels and a propensity to lie. Furthermore, alcoholism hasn’t been around forever. That is also a myth. It was created by AA. Yes there was excessive drinking before AA, but people did not claim that they wanted to stop, and most moderated on their own, as most do today, without the ‘help’ of AA.

      The true innovation of AA is that it gave credence to the claim: “I really want to stop drinking but I can’t!” Of course this is a lie, but a very practical one, for the scoundrel and the cheat. Which probably describes you — please post your drunkalog!

      1. Those actually weren’t my words I took them from the BB of AA. Ponder this if you will maybe you are the one that is brainwashed into thinking AA is bad. You can easily google any number of your seemingly original “thoughts”. I have read them all many times before. You read something then it becomes your idea and there it is on your website. This then appears to make you look like the liar. Even your belief that demon possession is possible. Why is possession so plausible but not alcoholism?
        The idea of alcoholism and what you seem to be incapable of understanding is that there is an inability to stop or moderate once that first drink is taken. Due to the misunderstanding of addiction people are suffering and dying needlessly. My experience shows that this program works even for people that don’t know they are addicted or even want to get sober.
        Since you are so hung up on drunkalogues here is what happened to me:
        Once I started to drink and use I couldn’t stop. Then I did this program as instructed in the big book. Now I continue to apply this program and I no longer want to drink or use. I no longer struggle.
        I don’t know if alcoholism is a disease. I’m not a doctor so I can’t say but original AA literature does describes it as a spiritual malady, illness or sickness. This described by none other than doctors. They describes the alcoholic as a very sick person. I’ve seen people walk into this program completely hopeless, no car no money no family no place to sleep, wanting to die yet they are still using….sounds fun! They follow the instructions in the big book with a sponsor and they get better! You know nothing of alcoholism. Some could say you are the scoundrel the cheat the liar.

      2. Excellent response. Thank you! I do not believe in either demon possession or alcoholism/addiction. And thank you for your drunkalog! Every drunkalog I’ve ever heard (from a man) includes some combination of indiscriminate sex, crime, and/or family neglect. Female drunkalogs usually include deep seated resentment towards mother. I’m sure you are just leaving out those parts here, and you include the salacious details in your meetings. But this is a matter of simple public record. Just go to any AA meeting and see for yourself. I’ve documented many cases. If your story is true, it is truly an original. Of course, perhaps you were just brainwashed into addiction. But I tend to doubt that. The most outspoken types are usually liars.

        And oh by the way, nothing wrong with indiscriminate sex, crime, or family neglect. We’ve all done those things. We just don’t blame it on a disease. If you’re not going to claim that alcoholism is a disease then good that’s progress.

        As for your claim that you can’t stop after the first drink, please explain, what’s the deal with the first drink? So just don’t have the first drink and you’re fine. Or are you going to claim that your judgement is impaired even while sober? Is there some corruption in your thinking that makes you think it’s ok to have just one drink, as any man would? I have a friend who’s allergic to shellfish. So he avoids shellfish. He doesn’t claim to be addicted to shellfish, or wear his allergy like a neon sign, or blame past failures on it. He just avoids it, and lets people know. What’s the big deal with drinking?

        The idea that you can’t stop is pure brainwashing. Of course, some people are happy to be brainwashed, as it fits nicely into their drinking schedule. Like I said, AA is just a relapse club, and it sounds like that’s how you’re using it. “The most important thing in my life is my sobriety. So you better be nice to me or I’ll drink!”

        And as for the claim about “other people,” well alcoholics (and the Big Book) always bring up the “I’ve seen other people” claim. It is simply a lie. That is the point of this web site: to expose AA’s campaign of propaganda and lies.

        But anyway, thanks again for your response. You are very brave indeed to post your drunkalog here, considering that it is easily discredited by attending any AA meeting.

        Keep coming back!

      3. Most people talk about what they did when they were using to identify themselves as an alcoholic/addict. The truth is what makes me alcoholic is that I had no control over how much I consumed. I drank because I am an alcoholic not because of anything that happened in my life. It is a delusion that I would have drank for any other reason.
        Anyone that says they drank or used for any other reason is being dishonest with themselves. It’s easy to blame others but hard to look at ourselves as the true problem. I agree with you about people taking responsibility for there actions. This program promotes that you right the wrongs with the amends process. This doesn’t mean we go and say I’m sorry I was drunk I have a disease you have to forgive me. We talk about how we could have been better and we are sorry for harming the person and ask if there is a way to make it better. The idea is to change the way we have been living through spiritual development. Surprising I actually like what you said about the allergy aspect. I had a discussion about this same topic at a meeting the other night. When someone finds out they are suddenly allergic to strawberries, they then stay away from strawberries. They don’t touch strawberries they don’t look at others eating strawberries and say oh I really want strawberries, why can’t I eat some. For the alcoholic/addict it really is just like that, the thought comes about a drink(the obsession) 1 won’t hurt and then 2 and then more, more, more(the allergy). I see a lot of people doing similar things like a diabetics eating sugar or a person who just had a heart attack eating a bacon cheeseburger. Some how the idea it will hurt us or others around us doesn’t stop us. This takes us back to the beginning of why we take that first drink. I don’t know why, what I do know is since I grew on spiritual lines, the thought went away. That’s when my recovery started.
        No one had to tell me I couldn’t stop once I started. If anything I brainwashed myself into thinking I wasn’t alcoholic. That I wasn’t as bad as others. For many years I suffered immensely for no reason. When I came to this program I went to meetings helped others and did the 12 steps. I found a solution to help me live usefully and happy. I tried many different ways to end the suffering such as abstaining, changing what I drank, drinking only at home, only drinking out of the house, therapy, moving. I found nothing other then these steps helped. I’ve never relapsed like I said before I do not fight drinking. I do not think of drinking. It is true that sobriety is important to me. If I’m not sober I’m of no use to anyone! Sometimes people are mean to me and that’s ok. It’s there right to be a jerk if they want. If anyone says they drank because of something other than I’m alcoholic they are lying.
        Also no where in the BB have I ever seen the “I’ve seen other people” statement. It only ever talks about themselves as the alcoholic and what worked for them.
        I think you’ve been going to the wrong meetings there are some really bad ones out there. Keep going you may find the one you need.

      4. The diabetic who eats sugar is making a rational decision to adversely impact their health. People make bad and selfish decisions daily. It’s not a disease, nor do they claim it. The alcoholic however plays that card shamelessly, not just the ‘allergy’ that compels them keep drinking until blackout after the first sip, but the continual obsession to drink even while sober, and sometimes even the mischief that ensues when drunk. The simple fact is that they are being selfish, as is obvious from every drunkalog I’ve ever heard: I drank, I got drunk, I had anonymous sex. I drugged, I got high, I made mommy feel guilty for loving my sister more than me. But no, the compulsion to use is a disease by itself, even if it leads to selfish behavior when drunk. Well that’s just a funny coincidence I guess.

        You say: “If anyone says they drank because of something other than I’m alcoholic they are lying.”

        I drink because I want to. Am I lying? What if I say that at an AA meeting? Sorry but your theory just doesn’t seem provable one way or another, nor ever could it be. That would be fine if we were discussing religion. But we’re discussing a deadly phenomenon, and that’s something we both agree on.

        Heather Kopp claims Alcoholism in her memoir Sober Mercies. But really what happened was that she lured a man into marriage with the promise of unlimited coitus, but then once wed discovered that the deed was intolerable while sober. And the man had a voracious appetite that kept her continuously inebriated for 10 years. Alcoholism? Or self medication for torture?

        What did you do when drunk? There you will find your answer, if you are being honest. Your belief that you drank for the sole reason that you are ‘alcoholic’ is truly dangerous. If you are spreading this brainwashing myth then you are hurting and possibly killing people.

        I’m not saying that you are morally responsible for that, because I think you are brainwashed yourself, and that if you injured someone in a DUI for example, you can blame the Myth of Addiction for making you think that you couldn’t make a rational decision not to drive. But I am pointing this out as a simple fact. Even while drunk you can say “I’m not capable of driving” and any belief otherwise is ‘devil possession’ (which I don’t believe in, nor should you), even though it is a convenient rationalization for the scoundrel. Or if you’re high on meth, you can still refrain from having unprotected sex that would put others at risk of HIV. “Sorry I was high” is no excuse.

        And in spreading this myth you are allowing people to avoid facing the real reasons that they are drinking to excess. Which just creates needless suffering that can last for years. Sometimes it’s better to pull the bandaid off then let the wound fester and rot underneath.

        Most of the younger people that you ‘counsel’ will drink again. And their drinking will be worse because you convinced them that they are powerless to it. Until they have a spiritual awakening, which usually doesn’t happen until middle age for most people. If you convince someone that they are powerless and they kill someone while driving drunk, then you bear some responsibility. And if you then feel an urge to drink, please know that this is a normal response to feeling guilty and not a symptom of a disease. And you’d actually be lying if you said it was!

        The Big Book (and these comments right here) are full of claims of how AA has helped hopeless people. And yet if you look at any individual case (like yours), the claim quickly disintegrates. Your belief in obsession with drinking even while sober (as a disease in itself) is really just a belief in devil possession. You drank because you were lonely or bored, and wanted some attention. That’s ok. But it’s not a disease. Far better if you had gotten more involved in community activities or other constructive behavior than hid behind a ‘compulsion’ to drink, a belief which our society seems more than happy to let you indulge (another issue worth investigating). How many years did you waste pretending that you weren’t trying to get someone to notice the anguish that you expressed through excessive drinking?

        I also think it’s funny that you say that I don’t understand alcoholism, when you yourself can’t seem to decide if it’s just a compulsion to keep drinking after the first drink, or if it’s also an obsession while sober. And God help us if we need to decide who is and is not lying when they say they drank for a reason other than pure Alcoholism! I feel like I’m getting stuck in quicksand. I hope you can now see at least that your ‘allergy’ comparison is not valid, nor to diabetes or heart disease, as these people are aware of the consequences of their decisions and don’t claim powerlessness. You also never explained why you took the first drink, knowing that you would regret it later (other than a dubious claim that you often see diabetics eating sugar, as if you can identify diabetics by sight along with their blood glucose level, and as if that validates your decision anyway). I have asthma, and yet I smoke hookah. Is that now an alcoholic’s excuse to have a drink? I haven’t had a problem yet, but if I do, I’ll stop! Why repeat the experiment? I hope at least you will stop thoughtlessly parrotting mindless disease analogies and Big Book dogma.

        The fact is, no one understands alcoholism. It’s a lie invented by AA, and it now lives in the imagination of liars and brainwashees like you. It just means whatever’s convenient at the time to justify selfish behavior.

        Furthermore if your obsession to drink has evaporated, then you probably also lost the ‘allergy’ that compels you to keep drinking after the first one. Which means you can drink normally again. And I suspect you know that’s true: you are in fact no different from anyone else. But you dare not challenge Big Book dogma that insists you are different, because it now provides meaning in your life, even after it stole so many years. You are an ADDICT and you wear the badge proudly. What else do you have in this world other than your meetings and the promise of teaching a newcomer that they too can blame their life’s failures on a gosh darn allergy. So what if it’s really just old fashioned demon possession spiffed up and repackaged to look like a medical condition? No one will question it, and if they do they are probably just a big hateful jerk with emotional issues who probably secretly wants what we have.

      5. My example : the diabetic that I know takes sugar in at an alarming rate giving them self type 2 diabetes. Why would they then continue to consume the very thing killing them? It’s the same with an alcoholic/addict. They consume the very thing killing them with any excuse possible. Maybe the diabetic and the addict are more similar then you think. When I asked the diabetic why would they do this they replied “it was only a little piece I won’t do it again” but the next time I see them there they are stuffing there face with cake. I see no difference between the two. It hurts me to watch them kill themselves though there is always some trivial excuse. Maybe you should think about that when your taking the next pull off your hookah or taking your next ambien.
        I’m not sure what Michelle Kopp’s story has anything to do with what I’m trying to say. I believe you may have just really wanted to tell that story.
        Maybe your issue with this idea of alcoholism is that many aa’s use there addiction to shield themselves from any wrong doing. I was sick you can’t blame me. Very appealing for someone when they’ve been living badly(an understatement) The truth is we are responsible for all behaviors sober and drunk. We have to be or there would be no reason to change. This is the point of reading the big book…to change and guess what it does help. You should read it again. What’s so wrong with helping in the community?
        I need to get something straight with you. I don’t convince anyone that they are addicts. If people can stay sober on there own or control there use that great. Though if they can’t then I try to help them with just telling them what I do to stay sober. By the way i should point out that I was talking about addicts when I said there is always an excuse. I consistently hear people saying they drank because they wanted. I drank because I wanted but when I didn’t intend on drinking and wound up drunk. That was were my problem became a problem. I’m not confused at all about the obsession or the compulsion. Again I never claimed to have a disease. The obsession is something you may never wrap your tiny head around and that’s ok. For a moment I thought maybe addictionmyth is sane but everything you say is crazy. I’d like to remind you that you don’t know me. You are so indoctrinated with putrefied hatred towards aa and you are always on the attack. Then again all your thoughts are a compilation of all your google searches titled Addiction Myth. Seriously even though you claim no addiction you seem to be a little crazed with this site. You may need help yet! Also you know what I actually can sleep really well every night sober. I’m sure you’ll be needing your ativan tonight. 10 years?!?! Really…that sucks! Maybe you should keep coming back…

      6. The diabetic that you know eats sugar because she wants to, and for the same reasons that you and I eat sugar. As if she even has to give you a reason. But she doesn’t say that she wants to stop no matter how hard she tries. Why? Because that would be a lie and she’s not a liar. She eats sugar because she wants to, for whatever reason(s), even though she knows it may end up killing her. People do self destructive things all the time, and it’s not a disease or defect or obsession or whatever you want to call it, and keep in mind that not everyone has the same lust for life and health that you have and that’s not a disease either.

        Interesting that she’s always doing it “when you see her”. Perhaps she’s trying to tell you something? A cry for help? Invite the poor woman out to lunch on a weekly basis. Give her a reason to live and maybe she’ll stop trying to kill herself. If only someone had shown you an ounce of compassion, you might not have tried to kill yourself slowly with booze. “Addiction” is often self medication for pain and loneliness, as is the case with Wendy Kopp and probably you too. You’re not doing anyone any favors by trying to convince them it’s a an obsession beyond their control. Or are you going to convince your friend that she’s addicted to sugar because it’s part of her diabetes, in which a defective body tries to destroy itself with compulsive eating? And then watch as her eating only gets worse, insisting that she declare powerlessness to her cravings and must choose a god and pray to it to remove her ‘character defects’?

        There is no similarity between diabetes and alcoholism. Diabetes is a real disease even if it exacerbated by our own behavior. Alcoholism is a lie.

        Your beloved cult has convinced you that you have a defective, obsessive, and diseased mind bent on its own destruction. They did it by exploiting the insecurities and sins you revealed during your “Step Work”, which are probably fairly normal and certainly no worse than theirs, but now they use them against you should you fail to follow their every command. They sent you out into the world to proselytize for them, to convince others that they are similarly defective and obsessed with drinking even if they don’t realize it, insisting that their claim to drink just because they want to is a lie, yet somehow without trying to convince them they are addicted, and to fight anyone who questions your malady. Now they are sitting back laughing at you, waiting for you to self-destruct because one day you you wake up in a good mood and forget to beseech your HP for protection from your own mind’s lethal obsessions and at the end of the day when you suddenly remember and reach for the phone to call your sponsor, it’s too late because the combination of vodka you picked up on the way home in commemoration of a successful day (an old habit you assumed was long since broken), and a nearly full prescription of vicodin left over from a previous surgery (whose longevity you and your sponsor had previously regarded as definitive evidence of progress even while you wondered why she didn’t demand that you flush it immediately), has already shut down the nerve signalling pathways that control the muscles in your extremities, thereby rendering a maligned and abused but normal brain hopelessly powerless, for the first time since infancy.

        That’s the cult’s most common MO, and it happens many times every day in this country. They lust for your death because it only makes them stronger; your expiration increments the morbid and shocking statistic that stands as this year’s testament to the power of the same bewildering affliction that now threatens the life of our featured speaker even as he stands here before us, a humble Christian, and once another certain victim of it, were it not for his discovery of a simple but powerful program, which worked when nothing else did, and which not only rescued his poor soul from certain death but offered it abundant life; the initiation of which requiring only a willingness to admit the power of an undeniably deadly disease; and the maintenance of which requiring his eternal vigilance lest it return. The disease withered as he advanced in the program that required of him rigorous honesty; and finally the infernal malady receded, though it revealed in its aftermath a shameful trail of sin, which he regrets and for which he has made amends, as our program requires. He then proceeds to recount the harrowing details. We listen and much to our surprise we are laughing! The recovery from our disease has strengthened us and made us resilient, and we are able to find humor in the midst of the suffering and hardship it created for us and the ones we care about the most. Indeed, we are not a glum lot.

        You laugh along to the mischief as well, unaware of the high price that must be paid for it, which can be satisfied only with the lives of other cult members. Who will die for this man’s sins? That question never occurs to you. For now you’re confident in your recovery, and in the fellowship whose warm welcome sometimes makes you feel like Jesus himself. Their eager hugs and knowing smiles suggest a genuine appreciation of your suffering, which you interpret as empathy for a kind of pain that could be known only by other members of your fellowship.

        My suggestion to you is to get yourself out of that cult now before it’s too late. Invite your friend out on a weekly lunch date, and tell her how you feel about her. Stop by your local church and see if they have any openings for service work. And join the rest of us non-addicts as we try to scratch together meaning from the thistles and thorns of our daily lives with whatever power our defective, crazy, lazy, angry, jealous, hateful but quirky and sometimes compassionate minds will grant us. And maybe even appreciate the rare times they make us obsess about something even if some people tell us it’s just not healthy. Because believe me, they have issues of their own.

  3. Wow!!!!! The ignorance is sickening. Addiction is a DISEASE that has scientific proof. Do some research n READ for some education u obviously need

    1. Actually there is no scientific proof for addiction. Certainly people like to create plausible sounding theories, and I’m sure you participated in that game (every alcoholic likes to fancy himself an expert on his own disease). But the only ‘proof’ we have of addiction are drunkalogs from self-professed lifelong liars. I don’t know about you but I will take their accounts with a grain of salt.

      The truly sickening thing here is AA, which spreads the destructive Myth of Addiction that has brainwashed and killed many innocent people.

      Please, post your drunkalog. It will be clear that your ‘addiction’ is completely fake too. The fact that you think it’s real for other people doesn’t make yours any more valid.

  4. Addictionmyth, But what about the real alcoholic? I strongly suggest you find a good home group and take a service position. Your stance oozes of, no paints a vivid picture of a tormented resentful person on the brink of extinction. Sounds like your brain could use a good washing. How’s moderation working for you? 🙂

      1. This shits hilarious. Aa is not a cult. And if it is I certainly don’t give a fuck. I was brutally addicted to meth and heroin. I bet the op of this trite crap has never experienced anything close to how it feels to actually go on a two week binge. I was so close to dying its hilarious. You ever vomited blood? You ever pray to god while fixing a shot that this time when that needle enters your arm it will be pure enough to cause you to o.d and die, just so you don’t have to use ever again? Never mind, I honestly don’t care. I have nine months and counting of peace and serenity. I’m living life today. Thankfully not some angry pissant with nothing better to do than bash others way of living. I wish you the best and know that you’re always welcome in the rooms if you need help.

      2. Oh please! The biggest addicts are also the biggest liars. If you were addicted to both meth and heroin then you couldn’t decide how you wanted to feel, and you were doing it just for the drama and just to get ‘addicted’. You got excited by the merest sign of withdrawals. “Oh no my stomach aches. I’m addicted! Finally!” I can assure you that you have nothing going on in your life, other than the promise of going to your next meeting and spreading the myth to unsuspecting victims. As Dr. Carl Hart says, drugs aren’t the problem. Anyone with an ‘addiction’ has other problems in their lives that they are masking with excessive drug use:

        And yes I’ve been on various binges, and it was fun!!! Maybe I was tired for a few days after. You are such an exaggerator. Probably you just don’t want people having the same fun that you had. I’d love to hear your drunkalog, you probably admit that it was great fun! Please send it! And then you got too old to play the games so you made up the addiction story, and embellished it with fragments from the Big Book and Trainspotting (and the Exorcist) to create an exit, and excuse for your failures.

        Thank you for admitting that AA is a “way of living”. Drug addiction isn’t a disease. It’s a religious cult designed to rationalize excessive drug and alcohol use. And to promote the state of ‘recovery’: holding everyone else hostage to your threat of relapse (which you have or will commit approximately 7 times during your drug career). There is no scientific theory of addiction that can explain dependence on both heroin and meth. Your experience can be explained only by demon possession. And that is my point: addiction is demon possession.

        The Myth of Addiction is spread by liars like you. You probably say that AA is the only thing that ever worked, and you probably say that anyone who thinks that they don’t need it will die. And you are probably still actively engaged in the binge-abstinence lifestyle, with the claim that you prefer “peace and serenity” to “mischief and debauchery”. Well aren’t you so goodly! Please, post your drunkalog!

    1. “Recovery” is just another way of saying “I’m getting too old for this and I’ll never touch a drop of that evil juice ever again*.”

      “*Except maybe if my wife becomes intolerable [name your excuse here].” And thus continue the binge-abstinence cycle that can last many years. It hasn’t saved any lives, but certainly has killed many.

  5. Is AA dangerous? No, it is ignorance from the past that has infiltrated the pocketbooks of court systems nationally. Addiction is right, I have 3 drunk driving charges because I drank to escape my marriage and got behind the wheel of a car. But am I an alcoholic? No, and I never will be. I never drank every day, I had months of sobriety very frequently and have good finances. My problem was never alcohol, it was my life, and if I hadn’t faced my problems I still would be doing the same destructive behaviors. Today, I am not sober, I drink in moderation, and I never get behind the wheel of a vehicle when I drink. I am not powerless over anything, I choose.

    1. Wow ! We’ll stated! Couldn’t of said it better! I also have 3 DUI and was court ordered into this AA program. I have left AA ant it’s cult mentality ! I choice not to drink at this time in my life. Healing me was an inside job, and I did the work to empower myself , so I can help others ! Alcoholic did not take my life- but a member of Alcoholics Anonymous tried , and almost succeeded . He caused the death of my little girl. I am doing the best I can to heal from that , if that is even possible.

  6. AddictionMyth, you sure have some strong (and valid IMO) convictions about AA, but what is your take on drug use? Are you completely abstinent from drugs? Do you use them socially? Do you make no attempt to inhibit your drug use and take whatever, whenever? What you have written could be useful to readers, but it is hard to gauge your credibility if we know nothing about your drug use.

    If you feel that “addiction” is a word that only exists for drug users to avoid accountability for their actions, then it would seem that you’ve never experienced a drug addiction. It is common knowledge that there is an overwhelming number of people on this planet who use drugs everyday but wish they did not use them at all. If this isn’t addiction, what is it? Of course, this does not mean that a person should be able to use addiction as any kind of excuse or justification for wrongdoing, but there is no question that drug dependency is a sociological problem…

    1. Yes I drink and drug. Read the post on the home page for details: “My So-Called Addiction”.

      Actually the claim that drug use is compulsive is rare! Go to your local AA meetings and hear for yourself. The story goes: I drank, I snorted, I cruised online for sex. Or “I was out with friends and just wanted a drink like any man would.” Rarely do they claim an irresistible compulsion for booze/drugs. The ones that do are either lying (they will often admit to a history of lying and then go on to recount the mischief that ensued from their “uncontrollable cravings”) or they are completely brainwashed by the cult. Actors (like Cory Monteith) are examples. If you play the part of the drug-addicted crack whore who will do anything for a hit, you may start to believe it yourself.

      Often girls do drugs to punish their mother for perceived neglect, then suddenly one day realize how stupid they’re acting and stop right then and there. Why are you compelled to do drugs? Tell us what you do when high and the answer will be obvious.

  7. Fuck you aa/ NA works I was addicted to herion for ten year spend long periods incarcerated the only way I’ve found to stay clean ans sober is throw aa and NA

  8. BTW..not every drugabuser is morally bankrupt..I think its a matter of the chicken or the egg..its probably a character deficit that would be there anyway..

  9. @addictionmyth Just to clarify your comprehension of my posts..I never said that addiction is a cortisol irregularity.. what I said was that malfunction of the HPA Axis to do a severe trauma causes panic attacks and anxiety. It creates a cycle of self-medication…which then causes the body to become re-aligned to a new physiology dependent upon whatever substance it has been innundated with.. and yes.. these “addicts” act like assholes a large amount of time. And yes.. AA and NA are for all intents and purposes cults.. but if it works to get these people back on some sort of constructive path.. at least initially.. then let them stay in their little groups instead of emerging to victimize the rest of us. HOWEVER, without intensive CBT or other treatment.. yes.. they relapse and start the cycle all over again.

  10. @Anonymous.. actually the relapse rate is 90%. NA and AA do not keep records..but a group of researchers in New Zealand posed as addicts and did a longitudinal study observing 500 subjects .

  11. I have read through 90% of this thread and am baffled how ignorant all of you are.. on both sides. Recently I got romantically involved with an old friend and if he reads this he will know who I am. We have known each other since high school..some 40 years. He was a substance abuser back then and he still is.. despite his claim that he has been an NA member for 30 years. He has a multiple relapses from using simultaneously alcohol, opiates, diazepams, and marijuana. He says he was “clean” for 10 years.. during which time he also was raising children and focusing outside himself. But he attributes this period to NA. However, he had some personal problems and relapsed for several clean again for five ..relapsed again for years.. got clean again by going again to NA. By the time I reconnected with him he was in the throws of a terrible multiple substance addiction. So how many diseases does he have if alcholism is an “allergy”..what are the rest of these substance addictions? Well I will enlighten all of you- since before him I helped another addict free himself without NA or any other brainwashing, temporary techniques. PTSD-post traumatic stress disorder- is the cause of most addiction.. which are a set of behaviors caused by malfunction of the HPA axis (hypothalmus, pituatary, adrenal systems) which produce the stress hormone called cortisol aka cortisone. The lack of proper regulation of cortisol causes anxiety- and when the person is desperate to free himself of these panic attack and periods of unstoppable and unfounded fear.. which is the result of the cortisol irregularity.. which now occurs like the well-known experiment of Pavlovs dog. Its a physiological reaction to any kind of stress.. and without CBT (cognitive behavior therapy) and or medical treatment.. the person SELF MEDICATES to get rid of the terrible feelings of uncontrolled anxiety by substance abuse. Learning alternate coping techniques is crucial.. otherwise relapses are guaranteed. People who say they have been able to abstain for decades- really were never true “addicts” to begin with in all likelihood. NA and AA are like putting a bandaide on a gunshot wound.

    1. And I would just like to add.. that AA and NA do operate as cults.. albeit with good intentions and profit from no one…but they DO alienate people from friends and family.. and I seem to have lost him.. if not permanently than temporarily. He does at least now know that the trauma he suffered as a child.. which he finally has become conscious of since our relationship.. is the cause of his spiraling out of control continually throughout his life.

    2. For me drugs and alcohol helped me escape my fears. Over time they stopped working. AA explained in detail my problem, offered me a solution and a plan of action. Essentialy a process of honesty, open mindedness and willingness was what I needed to change my life. Something I personally was not capable of doing. There are different ways of achieving these results for sure but many found their peace thru AA so why bash it. It seems the banshees lack the open mind to achieve a new level of enlightenment. To say that AA is a drinking club is quite humorous. Although I’m certain many people find new drinking buddies in AA many also recover from a hopeless state of mind and body. Be free my friends and beware of self deceit. That’s the real killer.

      1. As I stated below..research shows NA and AA have 90% relapse rates. By itself it is not enough to sustain sobriety. It works by peer pressure but for most it is only a temporary fix. There is no question it uses subliminal brainwashing. It should only be used as a support system for professional treatment. They refer to those in recovery and those in relapse..but never refer to anyone as RECOVERED. Therefore it is not a program focused on freeing addicts from their illness. Cancer victims post treatment have to decide that they are cured..because otherwise they would live in constant fear of recurrence. Addicts need the same healing and freedom from the label.

      2. Addiction is a cortisol irregularity. Thank you for explaining that!
        Based on your extensive (or at least intensive) experience, you’re probably right.

        But regardless of the real reason, addiction provides an opportunity to care for a broken person, and use neuroscience-y words, and that’s good enough for me.

  12. I’ve been in AA for 3 years now, and I would have to say that I’m rather unhappy in the program. In the area I’m from, AddictionMyth is right, you have to subscribe to rigid beliefs and succumb to brainwashing in order to get a (possibly fake) sense of “quality” recover. I was actually completely clean for about 15 months, but after a while the program started feeling like total nonsense. I do not believe in God, and despite several brainwashing attempts from AA members in my community who assured me that I would “come to believe,” I just can’t. I have not drank since I started attending, but I have a moderate (only because of availability) pain pill habit that I would sure like to get rid of. I know “the steps” aren’t going to work a second time around since they failed the first time. Has anyone had any good experiences with the SMART recovery program? I did some reading and it seems like a rational and sound-minded departure from what I have come to view as the cult of AA…

    1. If you believe that you have a “moderate pain pill habit” then congratulations, you are another victim of the 12 Step Cult of Powerlessness! This is good news, because most people will actually think you have a disease and will offer sympathy, in a world where no one seems to care very much. By all means, go to SMART and SOS and start to get excited about life again. Then relapse violently after some small crisis. This is the best evidence that you have a real disease. That only AA can cure. Then after years of debauchery under cover of alcohol and drugs, you ‘rediscover’ AA, find god, and share the beautiful program with others. You will “come to believe” after all!

      1. So, AddictionMyth, I’m confused: do you have information to share with others about an effective method for staying drug free, or is bashing AA the only goal of this blog? I thought what you wrote in “The Drinking Club” was insightful, so I was expecting your reply to be a little more constructive…

        I agree that AA works for a few but fails completely for most, and I’ve seen first hand that much of what you’ve written about AA is accurate. But if your answer to getting clean is simply “just don’t do drugs”, then I gotta tell ya, your method is going to have a 0% success rate among those who hate doing drugs but do them anyway (I don’t know what you call that, but the rest of the English-speaking world calls it “addiction” or “habit”). I called my drug use a “habit” long before I even knew of AA’s existence. AA rhetoric and spiritual nonsense aside, I can describe my powerlessness very easily: If I am not high, or at least high enough, all of my thoughts are primarily focused on getting high. I react to all interactions, situations, and any other phenomena in a much different way than I would if I were high. Whether or not my sober behavior is better or worse is a matter of subjectivity, but I consider it to be better up until the prospect of getting high arises (e.g., someone tells me they have pain pills). At this point, obtaining the pills is the only thought that exists in my mind. It will dictate every move I make until I get them. I will spend money I don’t have, sell my stuff, plan and execute elaborate schemes to steal the pills, leave in the middle of my work day to go get them, or even use extortion if I’ve got an angle. No option is off the table, no matter how immoral or reckless it may be. Pills have even brought my otherwise-perfect marriage to the brink of divorce. My wife had a bad injury, and her doctor prescribed her percocet for a year and a half straight. I constantly attacked her verbally for the pills, acting in a more abusive manner than I ever possibly imagined I could. If she ever told anyone who knows me the things I said and did to get her pills, they probably wouldn’t even believe her. I constantly feel immense guilt for the way I treated her, yet I know that if she ever gets another bottle I will do it all again! I want so badly to never touch a single opiate for the rest of my life, but the second they become obtainable I forget this completely. I know some will read this and know exactly how this feels, and others will see it as pathetic and absurd. I suppose this is where we can observe the existence of addiction; some will react this way to drug use, others will not. Personally, powerlessness is the most accurate word I can think of that describes my disposition toward pain pills. Now, AddicitonMyth is correct in saying that according to AA, there is nothing I can do about it, the powerlessness will persist, and it’s not even my fault because I have a disease. But if I work the steps and surrender to the higher power which I make up in my own mind, then I can stay sober and be happy. I find this to be a pretty grim outcome. And it didn’t work anyway.

        I like to think there is a way I can empower myself to eliminate the powerlessness I feel towards drugs, but I just haven’t figured it out. Does anyone have any ideas that do not involve a self-help program which requires rigid conformity to flawed logic?

      2. Your ‘compulsion’ to do drugs has a simple psychological explanation. Typically men drink to escape the wife and family and prowl for sex. Women drug to excess as a ‘cry for help’ if they are feeling neglected. What is your reason? From your account it’s hard to say, but I wonder why your wife would tolerate that abuse from you. I suspect that you are punishing her for some perceived deficiency. In “Some Assembly Required”, Dan Mager abused his mother for years to get her pain pills, in retaliation for her drug-induced neglect of him as a child.

        Or perhaps you are abusing your wife in the hope that she will leave you because you don’t have the courage to leave yourself. If so, my advice is to leave. Yes allure of freedom is illusory, but there may be no other option than to experience it. Better than playing this silly game.

        And if you do drugs to stuff your existential angst about death and decay, well join the club. We’re all struggling with that, in our own ways, some better and some worse than excessive drug use. Plus most of us don’t have the luxury of a “near perfect marriage”.

        There is nothing wrong with drug use and mischief. That is not my point. You do not have to remain sober for the rest of your life. By all means keep using if you want to keep using. Stop if you want to stop. (Yes there are minor withdrawal symptoms, but they are easily alleviated medically and you’ll be back to normal in a week.) And if you’re doing it as an excuse to abuse your wife, well that’s fine too, as long as I’m not your wife.

        My point is that it’s not a disease! And if you feel that you have a disease then you’ve been brainwashed by the scoundrels in AA who are using you as proof that their irresponsibility is not their fault. That’s why they try so hard to make you admit that you’re powerless. Pure brainwashing, and you’ve fallen for it even while you deny it. That is the point of my web site. To break the spell! Then your drug use will moderate naturally over time like the rest of us.

        And if you are yourself one of those scoundrels, well I can only say, Kudos!! It’s working!!

      3. (@ AddictionMyth from 12/30) My wife stopped getting prescriptions years ago, so that doesn’t really have anything to do with my current situation. The point of that example was this: There is nothing about my wife that really bothers me at all, other than the fact that she won’t give me her pills if she has any. Even though we go months at a time without even so much as raising our voices at one another, if she were to get a bottle today I would probably go back to the same behavior I exhibited years ago. Obtaining the pills would take priority over her, or anything else good in my life, and this is what I want to change.

        My compulsion to do drugs exists because they feel good. But when I do them they fuck up my life, so much so that in retrospect I wish I hadn’t done them. Yet, the next time they become available, I completely disregard how I felt after the last binge and get high again. It seems to be a lesson I am incapable of learning.

        Up until your 12/30 response to my post, I found your site intriguing because you seemed to be implying that no actual cause-and-effect correlation exists between excessive drug use and a person’s psychological problems. Your posts imply that addicts use their “disease” as a justification for wrongdoing and a tool for removing accountability. I certainly agree with that! I do not buy the “addiction as disease” angle by any means. But then you seemed to stray from your message: “Your ‘compulsion’ to do drugs has a simple psychological explanation.” If this is true, then there is a connection between drug use and a person’s psychological problems. And if this is the case, how can “stop if you want to stop” ever be advice that works? The compulsion to use would not exist objectively in the mind of the user. If drug use is the result of a psychological problem, then drug use cannot be discontinued until the psychological problem is addressed. Now, I no longer believe this, but do you?

        Here’s the thing: I used to believe that my drug use was the result of all my problems. When I quit drinking, I slowly eliminated everything that I perceived to be a problem in my life, and improved the situations I was discontent with. There are obviously still things that make me feel irritated or mildly unhappy, but I have increasingly observed that most of the people I know are significantly unhappier than I am (and don’t have destructive drug habits). I would say that the only overwhelming and reoccurring stress that exists in my life is my drug habit itself. Even though I am aware of this and have a strong conviction to not do drugs when they are not in front of me, I still do them when they are. If addiction is not real and that is not what this is, then what can you call it? The context in which AA and treatment use the word “addiction” may be rubbish, but there are people out there who use drugs but don’t want to, whether one calls it addiction or not. Personally I don’t care if we call it addiction, dependency, habit, or whatever, but I do believe that it is a shitty phenomenon to endure. And seriously, do you really believe that the only reason I will get high again is because society has convinced me that I don’t have a choice?

        So now that I have been presented with the philosophy that choosing not to do drugs is just as easy as choosing to do them, let’s evaluate my situation: I am high right now and will run out in less than 2 days. Then I will feel like I have the flu and be extremely sore for 3 days, and if I can think of a way to get more pills I will (I probably won’t be able to find any). After that I will remain clean for an indefinite amount of time, and at some point it will become possible to get high again. Whadda ya think, AddicitonMyth, will I just decide not to do it, for the first time ever in my life?

      4. Some people drug to excess for relief from psychological problems. Of course. But they do not claim “I want to stop but I can’t” and they don’t claim to be “addicted”. That would be a lie. They are drugging for relief, and they don’t want to stop, even if they don’t want to admit the reason for doing drugs. Of course, others are likely to look at them and try to convince them they are addicted, and powerless, and thereby avoid the underlying issue and set them up for a lifetime of batting a phantom disease. Which may be preferable to addressing the underlying issue. But it’s brainwashing.

        If that’s the case with you, then yes you need to address your underlying issue. “Stop if you want to stop” means that you’ve been brainwashed and it’s time to look at what is powering your cravings. If you really do want to stop. Then yes it’s time to examine those things. But it sounds to me like you don’t really want to stop. You complain about the withdrawals, but really they are not bad if properly medicated. Perhaps you are punishing yourself for some reason. Or perhaps you are just exaggerating and enjoy the drama. Yes that is speculation, but I don’t have much to go on in your case.

        You seem to have an “all or nothing” belief about drugs, and that you can’t enjoy them in moderation. If so, that belief is certainly due to AA/NA brainwashing (with the help of NIDA). If you do drugs to “feel good” then why do you need to take 20, especially knowing that you will not “feel good” later? Do you need to “feel really, really good”? It doesn’t make sense. Unless you have a disease that is remarkably similar to demon possession.

        Anyway, as I said before, just look at what you do when high. Then it will be obvious why you’re drugging. Check out the “Treatment” page for suggestions.

        And what triggered your last “craving”? Also please clarify if your problem is with drugs, alcohol, or both.

      5. At first I thought you were brainwashed. Now I think you’re an outright liar. For the following reasons:

        You can’t decide if you’re addicted to alcohol or drugs.

        You can’t decide if you do drugs to “feel good” or because you are physically dependent on them and want to avoid the withdrawals (several days of flu-like symptoms).

        You claim your behavior on drugs is not “subjectively” worse than off drugs, it’s only the behavior leading up to scoring that is reprehensible. But then you claim that drugs messed up your life and in fact the main problem with drugs is one’s behavior when ON the drugs (e.g. laziness, irresponsibility, disengagement, etc). This is especially true with alcohol. Then you say that you constantly feel guilty about the way you treated your wife trying to get the drugs. Well which is it, your behavior when on drugs, or your behavior trying to get them? Have you apologized to your wife? Were you sober or high when you did it? What did she say?

        Getting drugs is not that hard. If you are scheming and spending your life savings then you’re doing something wrong. I’d recommend meth. It’s cheap and plentiful and provides a nice high. Also heroin. I haven’t tried it (yet) but supposedly it’s super easy to score in NJ. And cheap. Anyway, you claim you have a “moderate” habit due to easy availability, so is it easy or hard to get? Please decide.

        You claim that you fear withdrawals. But in fact they’re not a big deal if you manage them medically (e.g. benzos). If you really experienced them and were concerned about it, you would have a plan in place to deal with it. And they are easier to get than opiates. And super cheap. Just tell your doc you have anxiety or need a little help falling asleep. They dispense that stuff like candy, and if one doc resists, try another. (I recommend Ativan/lorazepam, 1 mg.)

        You claim that you don’t want to do drugs. Then you claim that you want to, to “feel good”, even though you know you’ll feel bad later. And then you take a ton, which is more than you need to feel good. You claim you are going through severe withdrawals even though it takes MONTHS to develop a physical dependency on opiates. And then you can go for a while without them. Until the “possibility” arises again. Then what? Do you take them again for MONTHS and then withdraw? And if you’re doing them to “feel good”, then why does that feeling need to last for several months? Isn’t one day enough for you, at least for a while?

        Anyway, it is clear to me that you are a true drug addict (aka “craving liar”). If you are not arguing with you wife it’s only because you’re always high. And that’s the way you want to be (and maybe she doesn’t mind either), so please don’t claim otherwise. If you would like to continue this discussion, let’s wait until after you withdraw. Then you can tell me if you want to take drugs or not, and how much, and for how long. And if you want to stay high to avoid the withdrawal symptoms, then may I recommend benzos to ease the withdrawals. And if you want to stay on drugs because you enjoy “feeling good” and neglecting your wife in your “near-perfect marriage” then that’s fine but please don’t claim otherwise!

        You are such a liar! Thank you for being a vivid example of the Addiction Myth, and also for showing how excessive drug users use SMART and SOS to prolong their career. I look forward to receiving your drunkalog (when you are sober!).

  13. There are many ways to stay sober,yet bashing a persons way of doing it is like putting tacks on the ground in front of a five year olds new bike.I is mean and cowardly.This ain't my word ,I'm just passing through.and thank.,God that he has shown me the w says:

    Everyone get a kick out of bashing other people’s way of staying alcohol and drug free,and as we follow the ways of the world we are just strangers that are passing through,yet need to be kind in the journey.Bill W. Was a genius when he stated that a,a would be destroyed from the inside. The devil is bus,and when he aint busy he’s going to school.Knocking someone’s method of staying sober is akin to putting tacks on the ground in front of a five year old kid’s bike on their’s mean and cowardly.You wanna drink or a crack-rock.the next ones on me.

    1. Your cult convinces innocent people that they have a disease, and that they are powerless to it. Then proceeds to abuse them for sex or money. Or just for sport. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s your angle here.

      The problem is not “how to stay sober”. The problem is “how to stay out of AA, the Brainwashing Cult of Powerlessness that teaches young people to avoid taking responsibility for their lives until middle age, if it doesn’t kill them first”.

  14. Personally, AA’ s been good for me. I found meetings vary from location to location, although the program of alcoholics anonymous remains the same. Contempt prior to investigation is always wrong! GOD bless you!

    1. Wow!! Ok I want to be a voice from the middle of the road here! In my opinion and mine alone, aa has many good sides and tere are a few downs as well. I think that if in a relationship the addict attending aa should also be in some kind of couples counseling with their spouse so that there is a connection between the two. I also think that there should NEVER be anyone whom is court ordered after an offense of any kind in the same meetings as other addicts! The anonymity of the program makes it impossible to determine who might just be a predator or even just a bad influence to an already vulnerable group! The other thing I really do no agree with is this religious connotations associated with aa! I’m not religious and don’t eat to pray or find a higher power and am not there to feel or think about being powerless in any way shape or form! I have been on both sides of addiction myself and for me , aa meetings alone might or might not have helped but the counseling with my spouce certainly did the most good. Just because someone has been in aa and is sober does not in any way qualify that person to give advice about another’s addiction, life or anything else. That being said, the only advise given at meetings will most def come from a recovering alcoholic which isn’t nessesary bad but is all to dependent on the individual giving the advice who’ve changes at every meeting and every location. I do feel the animosity of the original post an can only conclude that perhaps you have been on the sober side of an alcoholic relationship to sound so jaded. That’s where the couples therapy would come into play so that feeling of ” they can’t talk to me but they can spill their secrets to their drink friends” comes into play and I def know how that feels. Despite the literature saying no religious affiliation if you go to one meeting it’s pretty clear this is religious. That part for me sucked beyond belief but I ignored it and got what I cod from the rest. It is in now way a perfect system and I’d like to see it completely revamped and have dr.’s and therapists invited weekly but that’s another blog — anyway in closing aa has its goods and the bads but to knock it entirely really isn’t fair because for many peoria it def has its place however step childish that place may be– thanks for letting me vent and look forward to future comments on this– I’d say god bless lol but that just ain’t me – I am my higher power and I am sober– sincerely , CAPT. CHRIS

      1. You are your own Higher Power? Well that’s convenient! Any time you get an uncontrollable craving to drink you can just pray to yourself to remove the ‘character defect’ that caused the resentment that powered the craving. And you’ll always be there to answer it (assuming you’re not already drunk of course).

        Anyway, like I said, AA is pagan cult. If you want to believe that addiction is a real disease, then just consider that everyone who has it also invented their own religion (or non-religion) to cure it.

  15. Well the cool thing about this blog is you get both sides…you get to hear from people whose lives have changed for the better and who help countless others lead better lives and you get to hear from someone who has no clue how much he has to learn because he thinks he knows it all. Instead of helping someone, this person chooses to spread lies, rumors and untruths to try to discredit something he simply doesn’t believe in. The good news is there is so much good info here not written by the myth admin that the page has become a great resource to hear the truth from the heart of AA…thanks for the opportunity! I would not be alive today if AA was not there for me when I needed it most.

    1. Actually I agree with you. AA has helped you. And millions of people. Engage in mischief and debauchery. And there’s nothing wrong with that. If you would reveal your drunkalog this would be obvious.

      Of course, you have to vouch that it saved your life (“AA was the only thing that ever worked for me” ©) but that’s a small price to pay for escaping your family responsibilities for so many years.

      It really does work if you work it!!

      1. AA is free doesn’t get envolved in controversy is not again any cause or support you can’t said that close mind, intolerance, can keep any human in complete ignorance!!

  16. It’s actually referred to as the “phenomenon of craving” (not demon possession) you are misrepresenting what this is actually trying to tell everyone. What happens when a real alcoholic/addict has just 1 drink or whatever…the craving is then apparent. What you are doing is trying to poke holes and that’s great I’ll be here every time to fill in where ever the knowledge is needed. This phenomenon is described in the big books chapter the Drs. opinion, maybe you would like to read it again since I’m sure you read it at some point.
    I actually have never relapsed and I don’t actually have a drunkalogue. My god doesn’t demand anything from me.
    I have experience of a certain kind that I believe somehow you’ve also experienced. The fellowship (not cult) that I belong to is as it should be, that everyone is welcome. The people I’ve met as well as myself did not enjoy their nor anyone else’s addictions at all. Contrary to your believe there was no stopping or moderating for any of us. We all had tried and tried and tried but were not successful, until this design for living described in the big book titled Alcoholics Anonymous was so freely given to us. All of us, including the non alcoholics/addicts.
    You say brainwashed I say enlightened. No one ever told me I had to admit I was powerless. These steps are but a suggestion that worked for the 100 people that wrote this book and so many others. Maybe you should also reread that chapter.
    I do agree that the word addiction is controversial but I think we should look to society media and politicians for twisting it to fit there agenda…ie ratings, funding, fill in the blank. The drug war started many years ago is very costly and very ineffective.
    Finally, I would like to refer you back to the idea of the “freedom of press” we have in this country. I wouldn’t refer to this site or any of its articles as true journalism. There would actually have to be facts being reported. Its seems to me that you are more comparable to the wounded ex looking for revenge. I would agree that what you really have here is the right to “freedom of speech” in this country which I will be expressing consistently on this site as long as it is operational. Thank you for the opportunity to continue to do likewise with still others.

    1. Thank you for your comment! But the First Step of AA is to admit that you are powerless. Plus you must introduce yourself as an alcoholic. Or an alcoholic/addict better yet. Plus you have to admit that you have a desire to stop drinking (i.e. you tried to stop but couldn’t). So I don’t know why you say you don’t have to admit powerlessness. Obviously you do, and reinforce it over and over again. And I have proof: I’ve been thrown out of meetings for refusing to do so!

      And the idea that one sip or pill can make you lose control of your own will is modern-day Demon Possession. Pure and simple. What exactly did you do after you got drunk? Stay home and play solitaire? The answer to this question would make it obvious why you chose to “let it all hang loose”.

      As for AA, how many people have you helped to brainwash into powerlessness? And set them up to battle a lifelong affliction or provide cover for a career of mischief?

      AA is a drinking club, and if you didn’t drink after your first meeting, then you are the exception, a ‘sober stooge’ that the cult uses to increase credibility. I’m sure you wear your alcoholism like a badge, because you can blame your failures on a disease instead of your own character. Of course, relapse is an ever present danger, even for the man with many years of sobriety. So don’t get complacent. Otherwise, what will happen when someone questions your ‘disease’? Will your undemanding god be powerful enough to remove the character defects that create the resentments that generate the intense cravings to prove them wrong?

      And by the way, I don’t think you’re a failure. That’s your own issue.

      Keep coming back!!

      1. Like I said before the only failure here is that you are incapable of actually understanding the true program of aa. The people who live these steps are far from what you are describing.
        The program of recovery is but a suggestion. You don’t have to admit powerlessness unless you want to admit powerlessness. No one will kick you out if you don’t. I’m sure you were asked to leave maybe once because of your obnoxious behavior.
        You sit in judgement behind a computer challenging others to prove your twisted theory. You are a sick person. I feel bad for the people who read your comments and think there is any truth to them. People like you have have dropped the success rate of this program because of your ignorance. We are talking about life and death. This is not a subject to take lightly. Though it seems like you are getting some sick satisfaction out of this blog. Your replies are awful. I’m disgusted by the atrocious views written by you.
        How about you write something that explains this trouble of alcoholism/ addiction other than demon possession and mischief. Plain and simple you sound ridiculous!
        Oh and by the way you don’t know anything about me. You only have your preconceived ideas about what you think you know about alcoholics and addicts.

      2. Please, just post your drunkalog. And let people decide for themselves if you are truly the innocent victim of a disease as you claim, or if you are just using a fake disease to justify a history of mischief, and now you try to brainwash others into the same potentially deadly beliefs.

        The purpose of this website is to expose the truth. It may not set you free. But it will cure millions of a dreaded affliction instantly! I hope that my web site has reduced the effectiveness of AA, because I know that will save many lives. If you had known that addiction was fake before you engaged in your own career of excessive drug use, you would have spared the world a lot of trouble and heartache.

  17. I have read many of the responses to your post and am quite disappointed in things written by some of AA’s members. However, not everyone in AA is in “recovery”; some are just partaking in abstinence. Furthermore, you are a member of AA when you say that you are by definition of the 3rd Tradition of Alcoholics Anonymous. The short form of the tradition reads, “The only requirement for A.A. membership is a desire to stop drinking” (AA World Services, Inc., 2013). The long form articulates, “Our membership ought to include all who suffer from alcoholism. Hence we may refuse none who wish to recover. Nor ought A.A. membership ever depend upon money or conformity. Any two or three alcoholics gathered together for sobriety may call themselves an A.A. group, provided that, as a group, they have no other
    affiliation (AA World Services, Inc., 2013). Given the requirements to claim membership, decrees made by some AA members do not represent AA as a whole. This is supported by the 12th tradition; “Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our Traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities” (AA World Services, Inc., 2013).

    Let me begin by helping correct some of your erroneous and defamatory statements about Alcoholics Anonymous. I would someone as educated as you, regarding the phenomenon of addiction and the organization of Alcoholics Anonymous, would have done slightly better research. Many of your libels are easily proven as falsities.
    Your statement “ You must confess this if you want to attend: “I am powerless over alcohol.” If you don’t say this you are not welcome,” was already proven as ignorance in the first paragraph when I covered the requirements of membership. The quote” I am powerless over alcohol”, is half of the first step. To discredit your denigration further, AA makes it clear the steps are but a suggestion!

    Relapse is possible, but not a certainty. Relapse occurs when an individual does not do the program as it was laid out in the book “Alcoholics Anonymous”. To claim that relapse has anything to do with the AA organization is comical. The program is simple! Alcoholics complicate it and want to do it their way; the result is usually a relapse! Lastly, because I could comment on your uneducated rant for hours, those members of AA in “recovery” do not hide behind addiction as reasoning for their abhorrent behaviors. Actually the program of AA teaches us to take ownership of our past and take the necessary action to make an appropriate amends for having committed them.

    Thank you for the laugh and the chance to be of service to you! I am grateful for the opportunity to educate you about your misconceptions of Alcoholics Anonymous. Research and actual cited facts to back libels could save you in the future from possible legal action against your tort.

    AA World Services, Inc. (2013). The Twelve Traditions of Alcoholics Anonymous Long Form (PDF file). Retrieved from

    AA World Services, Inc. (2013). The Twelve Traditions of Alcoholics Anonymous Short Form (PDF file). Retrieved from

    1. “I’m here because I want to stop drinking”
      = “I tried to stop drinking but couldn’t”
      = “Hi my name is Dan and I’m an alcoholic. I am powerless over alcohol”

      It’s all the same thing. You must admit this or you are not welcome, as I’ve demonstrated in the “Meetings Blog”. Try saying “I want to stop drinking and I can any time I want.” You will be laughed out of the room.

      How many people have you convinced to attend AA claiming that they didn’t have to admit powerlessness, only to discover that they had to say they had a “desire to stop drinking” which they suddenly realized was the same thing? And how many of those people were thereby brainwashed into powerlessness which only started the binge/abstinence cycle that lasted many years? And gave them a lifelong disease to battle against, with your professional help of course.

      Alcoholism and addiction are completely fake — either brainwashing or outright lies. If you would reveal your drunkalog this simple fact would be obvious. Of course you won’t. Typically men use alcohol and drugs as a tool to conceal affairs and rationalize abuse of their family. Then later claim it was a “disease.”

      You are creating disease by indoctrinating people into a booze-worshipping religion. In our country we have freedom of religion so you are perfectly free to do that. And fortunately in our country we also have freedom of the press so I have the right to show what you are doing.

      You should be worried that the people you brainwashed will come back at you some day. Your claims of “tort” and “libel” are truly laughable. If not pathetic.

      Yes AA makes clear that the steps are just a suggestion. But if you don’t follow them exactly perfectly then you will relapse.

      Thank you I couldn’t have said it better myself.

      1. I think you need to brush up on this program if you want to disprove this theory of addiction and recovery. It is impossible to do these step perfectly…the 12th step disproves the perfection. It says we try to practice these principles in all our affairs.

      2. You are great at twisting word! Kudos for that!! Your response was purely out of anger, because I proved you are a resentful, angry, sick, and ignorant individual. I will pray for you!!! Webster might be able to help you with the definitions of “desire” and “powerlessness”; most likely the definitions will help you understand that their meanings are nowhere near the same. You are entitled to your opinion; it is covered under the First Amendment and it is also a God given right. I only responded to your post to see what reaction I would get. Your response leads me to three possible conclusions: (1) You are a sick and suffering addict/alcoholic that cannot get sober, therefore you have a resentment against AA (FYI: Resentments are like taking poison and expecting someone else to die), (2) You are as uneducated as your first post indicated, (3) You have nothing better to do! All three scenarios are sad. As I said I will pray for you; you surely need it! Happy Holidays!!! Best of Luck!

      3. Aw. I was actually kinda looking forward to the defamation and libel lawsuit. Is that out of the question now? Anyway the answer is (3) – “Nothing better to do”. Thanks for the sympathy and prayers. Please send along the names of your god(s) so that I can invoke them directly next time I need some help getting in the mood for a bender.

      4. Actually I’ve seen a number of people who come into AA meetings and can’t even admit they are alcoholics. That is their choice and their program, it is not anyone’s responsibility to take another persons inventory. It is a personal program. I have never seen anyone laughed out of a room for not admitting they are powerless. Moreover, you can go to thousands of meetings and never speak a single word if you choose not to.

      5. I would also take a look into the SCIENCE behind addiction and the brain. Addiction is not a fake thing whether it’s to alcohol, drugs, codependent relationships, Facebook, etc. There is plenty of scientific evidence to back it up. Do some research…specifically on the word “saciation” and it’s relation to the brain and addiction. God bless you.

      6. Nora, is that you? Thanks for checking out the site! Yes I found some great stuff on addiction out there. We got some nice theories right here too — I think the addicts themselves can teach us a thing or two!

  18. Your an idiot, no I take that back, your a moron, I guess this means your smarter than the American Medical Association aye? I have never experienced what you say about A.A. and I’ve been around for over 30 years most of them not wanting to be there. But still didn’t see what you describe. Yes there are people in A.A. that are sent there and are getting drunk or high while attending meetings but A.A. has been around longer than you’ve been alive. Someone who could call a fellowship that has restored families together the way i’ve seen and children back to their parents the only demon I see here is you for putting this propaganda out to the public. Karma is a bitch is what I say to you and I hate to be around you when it goes off. I bet I got you pegged to the letter. Your either a addict or alcoholic who was in A.A. or N.A. and people didn’t bow to your every whim because your a high maintenance person, another words, a whiny baby, or you probably didn’t work the Steps so you didn’t get the promises that are stated or you got a crush on a newcomer woman or man and they didn’t respond so you quit. Or obtained a resentment somehow against alcoholics/addicts, or maybe your just a pot smoker who quit and thinks all drugs are the same. I will tell you a way to make you believe that alcoholism or addicition is a disease. Look at a addict while they’re using and what they do to obtain that drug or alcohol and look at them once they have been in A.A. for a time and followed the suggestions. They are like two different people, totally different. I am a alcoholic and addict and didn’t like the label of a disease either but once I had did some research not only scientifically but spiritually I had to come to the same conclusion as the A.M.A. which your much smarter than they of course. I will never check this site out again nor click on to your links so you get paid for bashing something that has been a blessing in my life. So carry your resentment and your disease to your grave and hopefully when you put your ego and pride aside you’ll tuck your tail under your azz and find yourself in a meeting of A.A. someday.

    1. Yes I’m an idiot. And you’re a genius because you figured out how to blame your selfishness and sexual promiscuity on a disease. Brilliant!

      I love how they always talk about the great work that AA does for other people. Where are these fabled “other people”??? Please, find me just one!

      1. There are as many ways to stay sober as there are people in the world.Some people join a church,mosque,temple,shrine,and never touch another drop.Others attend a.a or n.a and die clean and sober.Which ever way you go the goal is to be a better human being and bashing one another is not the way to go regardless of who’s team you play for.It ain’t my world stranger,I’m just passing through.

      1. Just another child of “the God of my understanding.” My next meeting I’ll pray for the still sick in and out of the rooms of AA.

  19. AA is a way of life. It teaches you love, empathy, compassion, and understanding towards others. AA is Christain. But when stating for someone to find a higher power of their choice, thats so anyone who is not Christian and atheist or agnostic of any sort can still work the program and join our way of living. Also AA didnt tell us we were powerless. Our lives before AA obviously showed us we were powerless otherwise we probably wouldn’t have been searching for help and wouldn’t have been in the rooms of AA in the first place. But I’m just saying. Have an understanding of something before you make an opinion on it.

    1. Seriously if you need to join a program to learn love and compassion then you probably also need to brush up on telling the truth. So forgive me if I don’t believe in your “addiction”. Which is actually the true religion of AA.

      1. Man are you seriously saying that my addiction is to lying cheating stealing and than alchohol and or drugs is just my way of a cop out for being such an asshole all these years? Well then sir or madam , can you please please direct me to the nearest assholes anonymous meeting please so as to help stop me from drinking – i don’t wish to be an asshole any longer! How ridiculous does that sound? I believe in free press but if aa is what you say it is then print your name, educational background, and by all means the accredited institutions you found said information and I will spread the word!! On a side note, if you are a woman I’d love to take you out for a drink if you’ve got a free night sometime? Holla back sugga!

      2. Excuse me but aren’t you the guy who chose YOURSELF as your Higher Power?? I bet you’re a raging ass!!

        Anyway sorry I don’t have an advanced degree in addictionology. Yes that probably discredits me in the eyes of a-holes everywhere.

  20. To the author of “The AA Cult. . .” The one thing that people should not do it write (publicly especially) on a subject matter they are unaware of. When people speak of their religious background, or choices, often times they have NO real idea of any other religion. I am a firm believer in “finding out your own information” before casting stone in ANY direction.

    AA does not say Pray to inanimate objects, it states to pray to your Higher Power as you see him. In the first 3 readings in the meetings it even states: “. . .our God may you find him now. . .”

    I do not have to even attempt to argue with your initial post. I have more faith in the human race (well, I did until now) that most people can actually know the difference in a fellowship of men and women for a common cause (to stop drinking or drugging) than a cult (that brainwashes people into having a “. . . group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.” ) Need I say more. . . no the initial author made an idiot out of himself….. Oh and look up idiot if you don’t know what that means.

    1. OK then who is your Higher Power and how many times did you relapse while in AA? The answers to these questions will quickly discredit your post and show that AA is nothing more than a religious cult praising the god of booze (at least as long as you’re able to tolerate the hangovers).

      1. I’d like to know what is your religious affiliation? If not religion who is your God?

      2. I do not have a religious affiliation. My god does not demand that I pray to him. But he forbids me from worshipping any other gods, even when I am drunk.

  21. I have been around alcoholism and addiction for a good part of my life. At some point I thought alcoholism and addiction was the inability to stop because the person drank or used so often there was a physical dependency. For some people this is true. A stint in detox or rehab helps to end the physical “craving” and it becomes a choice to use again. Though for some the thought of using or not using is the beginning of the proverbial “slip” or “relapse”. When they start to use they are unable to control how much they use and when they try to stop they are unable to stay stopped. Hence the slip or relapse. I agree that it is unfortunate that some who are in meetings are not there to “get better”. As we all may know there are people in this world that don’t always have the best intentions of others in mind. These are people that may not need to be there or may possibly be unable to see the way of life described in the big book. I have read this book and try to practice this design for living outlined. I have taken responsibility for all my actions and cannot blame any insane thing I’ve done on my use. What I’ve learned in doing this program is that the drink or drug is only a symptom of what is really the problem. I can make any excuse of why I used but the truth is I’m not sure why I ever did and I had any number of reasons why I shouldn’t. I was shown a better way of living and continue to grow along spiritual lines daily thanks to the big book and to people in meetings talking about the big book. If there were no aa or ca meetings I would not have had the chance to hear this message and accept spiritual help. Everyday I ask god to help me to be what he intends me to be. I’m not of any denomination and I like it that way. I don’t know if it is god at work keeping me sane and sober but who am I to presume to know anything of what god does wants or is. I am writing this post not to convince anyone of this programs validity but to help other addictive and non addictive people understand more about this problem as a whole. In actuality the big book was written for just that purpose. This program is intended for anyone or everyone interested in a spiritual way of life. Aside from fellowship and sociability the prime object of meetings is to provide a place and time where newcomers might bring their problem. So I suggest to all who are reading this to pick up a big book and read it and hopefully you will see the truth. It’s hard to look in on this program and comprehend it fully without have the capability of feeling what so many real alcoholics and addicts have felt. I want to end with a comment from the chapter To Wives on pg.111 top paragraph says “The first principle of success is you should never be angry. Even if your husband becomes unbearable and you have to leave him temporarily, you should, if you can, go without rancor. Patience and good temper are most necessary.” No unacceptable behavior has to be accepted…

    1. Great advice: “Never be angry.” Yes I would also encourage people to read the Big Book and see how stupid it is. That’s exactly the kind of advice that drives people to drink!

      1. I think what actually happened when you read the big book was a failure to actually comprehend what you were reading. Your ignorance to this matter is scary. People die everyday from alcoholism and addiction. I’m surprised that you join in the promotion of these deaths. You seem to be quite angry and I’m not sure if that’s really working for you. I’m definitely sure you have no idea why anyone would drink after reading your reply. If 1 alcoholic or addict reads this book and it helps them that’s a good thing. I see your delusion very clearly and maybe you should think about the idea that you are the person that is incapable of being truthful.
        I have some questions maybe you could honestly answer.
        Addiction has been around since before aa was formed.
        Why do you believe that aa creates alcoholics?
        Do you really believe that addiction is fun?
        Do you really believe that your website does anyone any good?

      2. Excessive drinking and drugging existed since time immemorial. AA married it to the concept of “uncontrollable craving” (demon possession) and thus created the disease (“spiritual malady”) and binge/abstinence (relapse) lifestyle. Yes excessive drinking and drug use is great fun. And the parts that weren’t fun are at least fun to recount. If you don’t believe me just go to your local meeting and laugh along to the drunkalogs. Read the Big Book and see how it protects the drinker and offers terrible advice that if you actually followed would drive you to drink. Yes I believe my website prevents people from contracting a fake disease. They will think twice before declaring powerlessness, and then moderate their drinking naturally like everyone else.

        Do you think your brainwashing cult of powerlessness helps anyone? Or simply creates a lifelong disease/binge-abstinence cycle. And/or provides a convenient excuse for immaturity and mischief? Which of course, is the real purpose of the cult, as would be obvious if you would please just share your drunkalog. How many times did you “relapse” and what did you do when drunk? Play solitaire through your tears, like the men in the Big Book? Somehow I think not.

    1. Bill Wilson was a Christian and probably intended for people to seek Christ for help. Soon into AA’s success, the founders realized that anyone could get sober if they seeked the God of there understanding. The BS at meetings about people making groups, people or objects their higher power was to keep from alienating people that are not religous at all. Let’s just imagine for a minute that this moron is right and AA is a cult. If it keeps one person from killing people drunk behind the wheel or beating his children then what is the harm. This Asshole obviously has more problems then any support group could hope to overcome. I guarantee he or she was court ordered to go at one time. You were weren’t you. I knew it.

      1. First of all Bill Wilson was not Christian. He was an occultist and spiritualist follower of William James and Carl Jung and well-known for seances and Ouija boards.

        Secondly, AA encourages domestic abuse. The chapter To Wives requires that the wife stand by her man: “Try not to condemn your alcoholic husband no matter what he says or does. He is just another very sick, unreasonable person.” And then proceeds to blame the wife for his behavior: “We have had retaliatory love affairs with other men.” How many wives and children have suffered needlessly because of this bad advice? The right thing to do is kick the scoundrel out of the house!

        And finally, many drunk drivers were brainwashed into powerlessness by the cult. The cult is responsible for those deaths.

        Please, post your drunkalog. I suspect that your ‘alcoholism’ was just an excuse to stay away from your family and prowl for sex. Just like your idol Bill Wilson.

      2. Works for me too. Anyone who has a “my way or the highway” attitude is a religious bigot. Have fun in heaven all alone. I ‘ll be in a better place than that with real friends and the GOD OF MY UNDERSTANDING!

    1. Also it works great even if you don’t want to stay clean. As long as you say you want to (the only requirement for attending), you can still drink/use as much as you want. Just wait for some small crisis (or create one) and then pop the cork. Plus it will make a great story at your next meeting. They love that stuff.

      Remember, AA is a drinking club. Anyone using it to actually get clean is a sober stooge, brainwashed into powerlessness by the cult, providing cover for the drinkers.

      1. Maybe you should try attending a meeting. I think you’d be extremely surprised. I’ve been to meetings all over the country and I’ve never once seen anyone use it as a drinking club. The majority of the people there are there to stay sober or to help others stay sober. I have some serious doubts about whether or not you’ve actually read the big book. It would actually probably do you some good to work the steps yourself. Unfortunately there are people in AA meetings who are not sober or trying to stay sober but they are forced to be there by the courts, but it is not our place to judge anyone and hopefully it will at least plant the seed of recovery and one day they will be able to realize they need help and ask for it. If you really don’t believe addiction is a real thing maybe you should interview some drug and alcohol counselors or social workers. You seem really prejudiced and angry I’m sorry for whatever has made you this way.

      2. if you never had a problem with addiction or alcoholism why did you attend an aa or na meeting? is your life that pathetic?

      3. Yes and making outsiders feel unwelcome is a common cult tactic (to avoid scrutiny). It is particularly hypocritical since many attendees (and Big Book story characters) report feeling unwelcome in their own lives!

  22. Just because you say its so doesn’t mean that it is so. 26+ years in recovery and learning there is a GOD and accepting Jesus Christ as my lord and savior. I am clean and sober today. To keep my sanity and clean time I must give away what I have. I do this on a daily basis. Be careful not to judge things only partially understood but become willing to see “all” things before making conclusions.

    1. Right and now you teach young people that they too are powerless to drugs, and must confess their powerlessness, and must abstain for the rest of their lives, and must accept JC into their heart. Or do you let them choose their own god? Oh that must be thrilling for them.

      And… a new addict is created. Gee thanks!

      Funny how all addictions counselors are ex-addicts. Perhaps that’s because they’re the only ones who know the “truth” about addiction.

  23. I’m a sober member of AA of 5+ years, claim Jesus Christ as my ONLY God, and believe He placed me in AA to do His work. Helping others!!!!

      1. That’s right. The only requirement for attending is to proclaim publicly that you are drinking and just can’t stop. Classic brainwashing technique. Or outright lie?

        Do not follow a multitude into evil. (Exodus 23:2)

  24. There’s a chapter in our textbook…ie…what we learn from, called the doctor’s opinion. This “DISEASE” has been researched for years, and this chapter tells of what medical professionals know about it. Please read it!!!!

    1. The Big Book says that Alcoholism is an allergy. Which it certainly is not. I’m sorry to have to break it to you, but your Big Book is pure propaganda.

      “Remember that we deal with alcohol-cunning, baffling, powerful! Without help it is too much for us. But there is One who has all power-That One is God. May you find Him now!” (Big Book, p. 58)

      How much can you really know scientifically about a thing that is “cunning and baffling”? And how many other diseases are cured through religion?

      1. “Religion” never “Cured” any disease!! Miracles have!! GOD< NOT RELIGION OR SCIENCE can claim this also, there is no "cure" for sin, but…the "GOOD NEWS" is, there is forgiveness. guess what has worked since 0001 A.D. how about that!!?? If people find their "Own" conception" or "GOD CONSCIENCE" through AA and it works for them who are you or I to judge them?? Only GOD KNOW!!!! AA also teaches "acceptibility and tolererance " NOW WHAT!!!!???? AA MEMBER!

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