You learned that your defective, obsessive, and diseased mind is bent on its own destruction: that is simply the nature of alcoholism, your newly diagnosed affliction. Ruin is inevitable.
They exploited the desires, fears and sins you revealed during “Step Work” to exact obedience and stifle doubt.
Then they sent you out into the world to proselytize for them: to convince others they are similarly defective and obsessed even if they don’t realize it, insisting that their claim to drink just because they want to is a lie, even as you deny trying to convince anyone they are alcoholic. And you do it, because it’s an essential part of the only known cure.
Now they sit back and laugh, waiting for you to self-destruct because one day you you wake up in a good mood and forget to beseech your Higher Power for protection from your own mind’s lethal obsessions and at the end of the day when you suddenly remember and reach for the phone to call your sponsor, it’s too late because the combination of vodka you picked up on the way home to commemorate a successful day (an old habit you assumed was long since broken), and a nearly full prescription of vicodin left over from a previous surgery (whose longevity you and your sponsor recently agreed was sure proof of progress even while you wondered why she didn’t demand that you flush it immediately), has already shut down the nerve signalling pathways controlling the muscles in your extremities, thereby rendering a maligned and abused but normal brain truly and hopelessly powerless, for the first time ever.
That’s the most common modus operandi of Alcoholics Anonymous, the brainwashing cult of powerlessness that doubles as a drinking club (oh you thought AA was a treatment for alcoholism? Gotcha haha!), and it happens many times every day in this country. They thirst for your blood because it makes them stronger; your expiration increments the obscene statistic that stands as this year’s testament to the fearsome power of the same affliction that now threatens the life of tonight’s featured speaker even as he stands here before us: a humble Christian, and at one time not so long ago another certain victim of the disease, were it not for his discovery of a simple but powerful program, which worked when nothing else did, and which not only rescued his poor and admittedly imperfect soul from certain death but offered it abundant life; the initiation of which requiring only a willingness to admit the power of an undeniably deadly disease; and for its maintenance his continuous vigilance lest it return. The disease withered as he advanced in the program in which he learned to exercise rigorous honesty in all his affairs; and finally the infernal malady receded, though it left behind in its wake a shameful trail of sin, which he regrets and for which he has made amends, as our program requires. He then proceeds to recount the harrowing details. We listen and much to our surprise he is laughing and we are laughing! The recovery from our condition has strengthened us and made us resilient, and we are able to find humor in the midst of the suffering and hardship it created for us and the ones we care about most. Indeed, we are not a glum lot.
You chuckle along with the group at the stories of mischief, unaware of the high cost the cult has incurred for them, or that this obligation can be satisfied only by the blood of its members. Who will die for this man’s sins? That question never occurs to you. For now you are focused on your recovery, while you relish the warm welcome of the fellowship. Their eager hugs and knowing smiles suggest a genuine appreciation of your suffering, even if the repeated demands for ‘rigorous honesty’ about past mistakes left you demoralized. They say you’re making progress.
You recommit yourself to the Steps as our speaker advised and wait your turn for the promised miracle, wondering if you really have admitted utter powerlessness to your disease as he did, and trying to remember what he even said about that.
___________________
The Real Alcoholics of AA pour their drinks and take their seats, laughing about their new disciples. Who will be first to attain true knowledge? The bets are placed and the curtain is lifted. The demons settle in to watch an eloquent apostle of our “cunning and baffling” condition start her day in a good mood and conclude it in silent vindication. The curtain falls and the room erupts in raucous cheers: the old prank remains as young as the blood that affords it. The winner of the pool soaks in the accolades and starts to plan her merry escapade, which will only wax more lurid in its retelling. Brew sloshes and spills from a goblet raised jubilantly in its own honor.
___________________
My advice is to get out now and don’t look back. Maybe stop by your local church on the way home and see if they have any openings for service work.
And for gosh sakes, don’t mix alcohol and drugs!
AddictionMyth gratefully acknowledges the contribution of Dr. Drew Pinsky for this article.
Read more:
- Powerlessness as Religion – Only the good die young
- The Problem of the Jews: a Lesson in Brainwashing Propaganda – How AA bamboozled a country
- The Drinking Club – Watch what they do, not what they say
- Cory Monteith: The Cult of Powerlessness Claims Another Victim – Fresh from a role as a drug addict
- AA is a Pagan Cult – You got a problem with that?
- School for Scoundrels – What you actually learn in the rooms
- The Little Psychopath Could: How the Addiction Myth creates new Drug Addicts
- Addict Science – A rising Tower of Babel
I am confused by this article. It seems rambling & angry. I had trouble following the logic. What WAS clear is that the author doesn’t like AA. Wonder why? It has worked for me & others. Life is good, now.
I’m with you in this. Its not a cult its a way of life. Its a fellowship. The cure is applying these steps daily and making meetings. In so it becomes clear where we were what we’ve become who we really are. And a new life has been giving to us. A new beginning to a better life. With understanding and character change we begin moving in the right direction. On a better path. Walking tall and confident with our higher power by our side. This artical is a angry rant and an ambush for the persons life who wrote it. And we must help those in need . Especially those who desire it.
mate Im suprised Im bothered to reply to your ‘head’ ‘concepts’ of A.A….Wise people
have suggested that the addictive society (world) we try to survive in is the ‘cult’!
Wise people have suggested we all need some kind of addiction just to survive in this
‘crazy, society……..Ive resigned from the debating society……it feels so good,…. my
love and respect for AA is based on heartfelt evidence, (not head ideas) mine and fellow travellers……
AA is leading me on a journey from my head to my heart(intuition?)…….with respect, sounds like you
are pontificating purely from your ‘head’……I just dont trust my crazy thinking and I so used to…….thank ‘God’ for A.A. and Ile put u in my prayers bro………
I think it’s funny how AA’ers are so quick to admit their thinking is defective and crazy. And then proceed to trust their will to a ‘God of their understanding’. OK it’s actually a little scary! Please leave me out of your prayers 🙂
My advice: You can safely ignore the advice of people who tell you that ‘you think too much’. Though, certainly it may be time to start thinking about other things. As a wise man once said: it’s easy to solve a big problem. Just create a bigger one!
What is the hang-up with powerlessness, if you are so powerful, why do you speak or communicate I should say, with such anger, and ridicule, we are obviously not smart enough to grasp what it is you are trying to sell. And yes it sounds like an angry sells pitch. Or a frightened child whistling in the dark.
Don’t bother engaging this twink in discourse about anything. He is a liar who can only break things, not build them. This puts him on the side of the demons, not the angels.
AddictionMoron, if you are such a great intellect, show us something positive. Build a better ark. Make things better for those you claim such grand altruistic motives towards.
Don’t worry, not holding my breath here..
First of all I am a twerp not a twink.
And secondly, you completely misunderstand my point. I think AA is great for people like you. It provides a convenient excuse for your philandering career and all your character defects, and it gives you the opportunity to pass on the skillz to the youngins. Sorry if I wasn’t clear about that. But really dunno how to be more explicit. I think AA is great for demons and douche bags!
As for the people who say “I was going to die and AA is the only thing that ever worked for me,” well that is simply a lie. So I’m not concerned about those people either. Enjoy lying and drinking at your lying and drinking club. Remember to recount the important lesson you learned from your last ‘relapse’ and congratulate yourself periodically on finding new ways to convince each other that you’ve corrected your ‘defective thinking’. A hearty pat on the back is certainly in order. Please, keep going back and don’t let me stop you (as if I could!).
However I am concerned about the people you brainwash into powerlessness. For those people, I simply point out that AA is a religion likely to kill them if they really believe it (as some do) and that if they are interested in religion they are better off stopping off at their local church. Why build an ark when there already is a beautiful one ready to board?
Can’t argue with crazy.
Its called attraction not promotion. Funny that you would take the time to pick a part something that works so well. You really don’t get it. My advice is to go to a meeting and shut your mouth and actually do the steps. Maybe then your life could change enough so that you could actually help yourself and not feel the need to condemn others. You obviously need this more than most since harsh judgement of others is one of the biggest glaring defects that stands in the way of a fruitful life.
Maybe you’re right… but do I have to admit I’m powerless? Or can I just say it without really believing it, like you did?
If your asking questions???? Maybe you need to do some controlled drinking…. It might work for you.. Anger is an emotion no one should desire… Love is the answer…. Love ya man hope you find what your looking for….
First. I have spent close to 50+yrs of my life in or around alcohol abuse and can attest with our a doubt the value and benefit of AA or the program as many of us say. My dad was in the program after 30 years of hard drinking. He turn his drinking energy into the program and I am proud to say help 100’s of other as a sponsor, some of who want on to very visible roles in our country. I my self spent many a hour as a youngster in the basements of the local church while my mom help in Al-Anon listening to all the impacts alcohol abuse creates in a family.
Even with all that experience and knowledge I became a alcoholic my self. Why , because the simple truth is as a human our greeting asset and liability is our ability to rationalize our actions. So I started on a path to drink with control , never realizing that the drink controlled me instead.
What I learn from AA and Al-Anon + some deep therapy was a never ending acknowledgment that I will be a lifetime alcoholic. But I can with that knowledge and what i learned in AA to stay in recovery. That is the reason why I reached my 20 yr mark just this last jan.
All i can say For the addiction myth is this, Focus in your own rationalization and leave those of us who seek balance and control in our lives alone. We earned the right not to be ridiculed by people like you.
How many people died for your father’s sins? Yours?
You and your family created untold suffering. That is nothing to be proud of. If people got better, it was only because you first made them worse. Including yourself.
You are perfectly normal and can drink like a normal person. The only reason you think you can’t is that you were brainwashed as a small child by your own dear mother. To justify your own dear father’s philandering!
And then your own!
“Even with all that experience and knowledge I became a alcoholic my self.” Exactly my point: it made you an alcoholic. Get it now?
“Our ability to rationalize our actions.” Dear God, when will it end??
Thank you for the vivid demonstration of the Addiction Myth. I will save a spot for you in “My Fake Addiction”. Perhaps one day you will earn the right to be forgiven by people like me.
Your obviously are a self indulged narcissistic . I pity you as you sit , shit faced yet again at the end of the night blaming the world for all your problems.
Wait for the victim to express despair or anger, and respond with pity or contempt. Then: explain that their ego is the cause of their suffering, as it was once for you. At this point you will have their full attention…. They must first admit powerlessness, then choose a god and enumerate their defects with rigorous honesty….
Thank you for demonstrating the cult’s tactics for all to see. How many times did you use that on new members and how many of them survived? I bet you’re pretty good by now.
Thank you for another impressive display of love and serenity. Wow you really have learned a lot at AA. Your Dad would be so proud. Maybe Mom too!
I really want what you have. But gosh darn it I guess I’m just not ready yet. So for now, please pardon me while I refill my glass and resume blaming the world for my deficiencies. (Or as Dad would say: “Get hammered and break out the beer goggles.”)
Your not a narcissit , your just a bully. There is no value in arguing with a drunk nor acknowledging a bully.
The day you decide you need to sober up call one of us and we will help.
@addictionmyth…..you’re swilling liquor and snorting or smoking meth while you write this. That’s obvious. You are capable of being articulate but your rambling and rage-full. You’re sarcasm shows real anger and I would guess despair but you too smart to except the fact that you can’t figure out a solution to your own problems…bitterness just seeps from you. You believe in God and Jesus but you seem to feel abandoned. Possibly your problem like so many is that your real God is in fact, you.
AA is no sect. The idea is retarded. Allowing an alcoholic the ability to choose a higher power of his own understanding, allows all people to join and if the seek God honestly, those people will all come to know the same God. What they call God doesn’t really matter as God created everything… so while I’ve never heard of anyone really using a doorknob as a higher power, God is everything. In Matthew, Jesus tells the Diciples to go into a room, close the door and there alone they will find God. So God is inside each and everyone of us. All AA teaches is hear him.
Powerlessness, has to do with a man made substance and all we zenith is that when consuming this product our lives have become unmanageable. And if you think that drugs and alcohol have not destroyed many families then your blind. Spirituality has nothing to do with any one religion. It has to do with the courage to live in the light not the dark. So as you sit there and have another sip of bourbon, search for a cigarette, rub your red and swollen nose, realize what Jesus is thinking of you as you spew your sarcastic, holier than thou diatribe of evil shit. He’s shedding a tear. Good luck to you. I mean it. You are in a very bad and dangerous place my friend. Yes, friend. I don’t like what you spew but I do hope you climb out from under your rock and join the human race
How does this brainwashing thing work, exactly? Well actually it’s not hard. Just wait for the victim to express despair. That’s not unusual for people walking into meetings seeking companionship and relief of distress, and even people sent by the courts or encouraged by friends/family. Tell them that they are in a dangerous place and you are worried for them. Neither you nor they know what they are capable of. Remind them that they have a disease (otherwise why would they be there?), which always ends badly if not treated. Tell them that you have a program that will relieve their pain and give them the courage to ‘live in the light/join the human race’. At this point, you have their full attention.
Then explain that they are obviously angry, bitter, and resentful (and they probably are about something). It’s because they are their own HP, which is pure pride, and it must be expunged. Explain that the program will set them free, as it did for you, but that they must list their fears, insecurities, and resentments — with rigorous honesty. These are the ‘keys to the kingdom’. For example, if they feel lonely, abandoned, or mistreated you say, “You feel lonely/abandoned/mistreated because you have not fully admitted powerlessness to your disease and/or you think you’re your own HP and/or you are too smart for your own good.” At this point they will turn off their brain and believe whatever you tell them and do whatever you say. Even if they are not at the point where they are ready to choose a HP (which normally doesn’t happen until middle age anyway). Trouble makers will use these years to indulge their powerlessness and collect stories for their future AA careers, dropping in periodically to collect chips. Young people may get sexually exploited by the older men in the club. Depressives will sometimes kill themselves, believing that they had no choice in the matter.
Thank you for exposing the cult’s tactics. When you show it this way, it’s really not hard to understand the appeal and why so many people fall victim to it.
Your rambling, incoherent and horribly inaccurate and untrue fabrications masquerading as reason reveal your true problem: you are entirely incapable of being honest.
I am so sorry you had such a bad experience in AA. As in anything in life, some of it is BS but for me it lifted a mess that years of therapy couldn’t touch through working the steps with a sponsor and with a therapist. I have changed and am no longer the person that would drink again. I’m just trying to enjoy a life without alcohol as it is a poison for me. If I’m not having fun and learning, I’m out of here!
I had a great time in AA. But I am a little concerned about the people you brainwashed into powerlessness to justify your excessive drinking, and later died because they believed it. Somehow I don’t think they are having much fun.
Here you go blogger with big words trying to make others feel inferior. You didn’t look up the only word you should have. Definition of disease (originated from Latin dis – ease) – a condition that prevents the body or mind from working normally. ANY condition that causes pain, distress, social problems, deviant behavior (sound like someone you know? ) and death.
AA came from human beings that decided to help one another and it worked. I don’t give care if it’s this or that. All I know is that people change from it so why knock it? You don’t have to agree with EVERY SINGLE THING in the program. Use what you can and leave the rest. Stop being so annoyed at the program. The problem is you. The end.
Oh and your comment to this, well I don’t give a shit what you comment but go grab your dictionary and your ego and type with anger like you do to every other person who hurt your pride and ego by having their own opinion to your PUBLICLY AVAILABLE blog. You asked for this so enjoy your accountability…..or not again I don’t care.
I hear you say that disease is any condition that causes distress. And that AA has helped many people. And that I am haughty, angry and not accountable to my statements. I hear all that and I disagree, but I will not quibble on those points. Because they are irrelevant to my main point, which is: AA doesn’t cure alcoholism. It creates it.
My only problem with the program is the first step: “I am powerless.” Otherwise I have no problem with the Steps, or choosing your own gods, etc. (I’ve said this before many times.) My only problem is the first step, because that creates a disease where there was none, and a new problem on top of all the other problems people struggle with. My focus on the religious aspect is not to show that some religions are superior to others. It is only to show that AA is a religion, a fact which I believe supports my claim that it is a drinking club and brainwashing cult (not a ‘cure’). Yes I do believe that paganism is mischievous by nature. But that’s fine, and only a moralistic ass would criticize it on that front.
But back to my point: You didn’t believe you were powerless. But you require others to believe it before they can advance to the next step. In fact, before you’ll accept them into the group. That is the problem. This belief is false, and that’s fine. But this belief can be deadly, and that’s not fine. You are more than happy to allow others to die so that you can justify the things you’ve done or will do when drunk (as reported in your drunkalog). And so that others can take advantage of a newly vulnerable inductee. Not cool.
I realize you will again mischaracterize my argument by claiming I am just an angry fool, as AA defenders always do. But I would challenge you to characterize it, like I did yours. How does that make you feel? I suspect that’s why AA defenders are so fond of the comment-and-run. Because they don’t want to be held accountable to their own beliefs, often right after accusing me of not being accountable to mine!
You asked for others opinions by blogging yours with a comment box.
I myself am not mad or angry at all. I like others just have my own opinion on the topic.
Step 1 is your only “problem” with AA/NA/OA/GA……… Okay let’s look at it then.
We admitted we were powerless over alcohol-
that our lives had become unmanageable.
We (all of us that came here for help)
WERE (past tense)
powerless = devoid of strength
OVER alcohol, drugs, gambling, food, cigarettes, etc
That aspects of our lives HAD become unmanageable.
With that knowledge that I myself cannot drink without getting drunk, I GAIN POWER also known as KNOWLEDGE.
over
AddictionMyth were you ever an addict/alcoholic?
I am powerless to refrigerated cookie dough. When I go to the supermarket, I have no intention of buying it. I’m not even hungry. And I know exactly what I need and have no business being in that section. And yet I find myself there, staring at the packages. Triple chocolate? Brownie fudge? Peanut butter delight? I can’t decide. I’ll take all 3. Don’t worry I won’t eat them all. Not tonight, not all in one sitting. I’ll just have a few squares and keep the rest frozen for a future date. OK this strategy didn’t work last time. Or the time before that. Or in fact for the last 5 inches of my waistline. But this time it will work I am sure. And why shouldn’t it? Like I said, I’m not even hungry.
I question if this is a good idea. But I must make a decision. I can’t stand here all night blocking the dairy case. What if some old lady needs the low fat cottage cheese on the shelf below? Not exactly my ideal for a reach-a-round.
Then I watch myself, as if in a movie, throw all 3 packages in my shopping cart and continue on my way.
But I’m not worried because I’m not even hungry. I will stick to my plan.
I check out and walk outside. It’s a fine chilly evening as I carry the bags to the car. I pack them in my boot, and as I reach up to close it, I see a shiny yellow corner peeking out from below a carton of Slim Fast. Which one is it? I’m not hungry, just curious. I pull it out. Hmm, peanut butter. Haven’t tried that one in a while. Is it the same as I remember? OK I’ll have just one little square. Well maybe 2, and save the rest for later. It’s fine because it’s a beautiful night perfect for a little treat, and haven’t I been good lately? Plus, I’m NOT EVEN HUNGRY.
I start the engine and fasten my seat belt. I pick up the package and read the label, as I have done a million times before: DO NOT CONSUME RAW COOKIE DOUGH. I know I am risking my health and possibly my life, but I proceed regardless. Maybe I have a problem, but I will not worry about that right now.
I carefully open it and break off a square…. Bite off a small piece. Hmm yes it is like I remember. Good but not my favorite flavor… somehow the peanut butter is always a slight disappointment… Why can’t I ever seem to remember that?
I finish the square and check my mirrors to back out. But first… didn’t I say I would have 2?
And then I find myself sitting in the parking lot, now nearly empty. Pearl Jam ‘Daughter’ is playing on the radio. Three open cookie dough packages lie on the passenger seat next to me. I check: they are all empty. I have no recollection of what happened. I feel bloated.
Not again! Not again! Please god not again!! Oh god why have you forsaken me???
I wonder if the pain in my stomach represents the first stirrings of a deadly bacteria. Oh wouldn’t that be the ultimate irony! I map out in my mind the fastest route to the hospital. I did not intend for my evening to end this way.
But I remember what they told me last time and decide to head home. I will re-evaluate my plan if the pain becomes an “8”.
I drive home in an insulin induced stupor, nearly killing a family of 4 and possibly their dog. I feel bad about that. Even worse: will Lois withhold purrs and cuddles in spiteful retaliation for the delay in tonight’s feeding? I resolve then and there never to eat another bite of Satan’s chunky excrement ever again. My life is out of control. I can’t keep doing this to myself or my loved ones. I need help!
And yet: I’ve made that promise many times before.
I think I’m ready to admit: I am powerless over refrigerated cookie dough. It controls my life. Even when I’m NOT HUNGRY.
Help me! Help me! Oh god of my (admittedly imperfect) understanding, please help me!! I will do ANYTHING!!!
The people I hang out with in AA believe their God is Jesus. The good book Dr Bob talks about (Bible) says we strive to be like him. Are you really a Christian?
Are you a shrink?
I respect my god’s laws/commandments regardless of whether I am sober, drunk, or high. That’s not true for the people you hang out with. Just ask them: What god did you believe in when you were drunk?
A god of yours or my understanding is straight misleading. Satan transforms himself as an angel of light to throw human kind off the focus of the true creator (ELOHIM) as he deceived Adam and Eve in paradise that caused the avalanche of corruption. Satan convinced Eve that there was another way. That was the lie that was told from the beginning and is still being told today; just find a god of your own understanding. Fact is this; there is only one GOD and one savior, CHRIST. May you find Him now.
As long as I am drug and alcohol free that’s then sufficient. Not so; we are made in the image of ELOHIM. Therefore the only thing that will die is the physical body. Where will you spend eternity?
Truly, GOD the Living GOD is Love, but He is a just GOD. What happens when your childern are disobedient? Do you just love them so much that you continue to let them do wrong? Think about it. Their is nothing on this earth that can save; no group or organization on the face of this earth in this life nor a god of your understanding. That is what Satan wants you to believe.
I basically agree. But from your experience, is AA helpful or destructive? I mean, I’m concerned about eternity of course, but what about the here and now?
As usual we get someone who is giving advice without establishing their credibility. Is the author an alcoholic? A sober alcoholic? A sober alcoholic with how many years of sobriety?
As for Dr Drew……..you can read all of the books you want, and interview all of the people that you want. But without knowing what the “alcoholic hunger” or the despair of hitting bottom are on an intimate level, how are you an expert on alcoholism or addiction? As a white man, I can never tell you what it feels like to be a black man. I can sympathize, but not emphasize.
If AA is a cult, well thank god for that! I got sobriety when I was 26. I’ll take the last 28 years I have been sober in AA with a great deal of gratitude and humility. Without AA I am sure I would have died many years ago.
The old-timer says: “I was completely hopeless and AA is the only thing that ever worked for me. It gave me a life I never dreamed possible!” © The Drinking Club
You’ve had 28 years to construct and refine a compelling drunkalog in which you explain how AA rescued you from certain death. We’d love to hear it. Please post. Don’t forget the part where you saw your father lick alcohol off the floor and from the broken shards of a bottle he dropped when trying to retrieve it from its hiding place in the closet. It’s a very effective way to portray the “alcoholic hunger,” and only angry, hateful and ignorant people (who secretly want what you have) would ever question it.
Please, establish your credibility if you are going to challenge mine.
And I would also like to know: who died for your sins? (I’m pretty sure it wasn’t Jesus because few of you guys are Christian even though you always claim that most other members are.)
Wow your full of resentments …..
Wow I bet you have some good stories. (And I will admit I’m a little jealous. But I’ll get my HP on it!)
wow. these are crazy posts. aa by itself maynot work. you have to believe in it and work the steps. there are several groups out there. if you don’t like one try another. aa gives support when you want it. yes you may screw up but no one thinks any less of you. just pick yourself up and get back on track. there are several factors in addiction. there is also not enough research on it. you can google it and find what you want to hear. its disease..its choice. when a person is ready to let go of the anger and denial peace and serenity can be found within the doors of aa.
When you get tired of “mischief and debauchery”, you can find “peace and serenity” at AA. And you can return to “mischief and debauchery” any time, we won’t think less of you. Just return with a good story!
No one knows what addiction really is. So in the mean time, you just have to believe in it. That’s the only requirement. It works if you work it!
does it help the drunk to criticize him for being human and making mistakes? hey if that works lets all get inline for a beating. you are good at twisting words. I said anger and denial.
I would not criticize anyone for “mischief and debauchery”. It’s what makes the world go round. I’m certainly guilty of it too. If you have a problem with it, or feel judged, then maybe check your stinkin thinkin, or choose a HP who is more understanding. Please stop beating yourself up!
Anyway, you are right about denial. If I could get past the denial of my own drinking problem, maybe I’d discover that my shameful behavior was simply the detritus of a disease. Wouldn’t that be nice! It’s good to know AA will be there for me when I’m ready to let it go.
The only thing I would criticize someone for is hypocrisy. And I’d hope someone would extend me the same courtesy.
You all are so very passionate about your views and I think that each of you have made significant points in your desire to “shed light” on this subject of alcoholism/AA/cult/myths ad infinitum. I am 49 year old female who did indeed suffer tremendously from the abuse of alcohol, drugs, promiscuity, “acting out” in various ways that were rooted, deeply, in experiences beginning in my formative years in my family of origin branching out into my my educational experience under authorities that were very much indoctrinated by the UNESCO approved way of evaluating and defining the human experience. I was medicated with pharmaceuticals in kindergarten for a stomach upset (inner turmoil, fear, uncertainty, etc.) due to having been an abused child by the those who were supposed to be my protectors, providers, etc. ~ eventually as this continued I opted to “self medicate” to escape what I couldn’t explain or process in my mind and the view of the world I had left me with many questions. I, was forced into rehab a very, very lucrative business in the 80’s and recovery is still very much a huge money, making enterprise. What so few will realize is that there is indeed an indoctrination of belief systems and the distortions of the truth are so, so extensive and intertwined in the many different disciplines. I was never able to truly get sober and clean until 8 years ago and even though my experience has included AA my “recovery” has more to do with my becoming personally empowered through seeking knowledge of the truth with diligence and refusing to be a parrot of slogans, pseudo science, pseudo spirituality and the lie of “god as we understand him” introduced into the mix by Hank Parkhurst. I am very, very involved in exposing the myths, but not to destroy people’s hopes or cause them any more pain, but rather in the true fashion of loving my neighbor helping them to navigate the waters WITHOUT checking their brains at the door or burying their heads in the sand or being so controlled, dominated and manipulated through the fear tactics I have witnessed and been a victim of in many an AA room. I will also add that I am indeed a very serious student of Scripture that is far from the mainstream and what we see being parroted in what is now considered the Church taking their cues from religion that has been created through mistranslations, AGENDA DRIVEN translations and missing entirely the Kingdom of God economics and truly knowing freedom from bondage and liberty as a result of developing those eyes to see and ears to hear by truly surrendering almighty I and poor little me to something that is NOT of this worldly system…we must remove all the preconceived ideas, the traditions of men, the pride and ego and recognize with true humility the truth of the human dilemma. It is NOT in obeying rules and legal codes, but rather producing fruit from relationship that resulted from revelation through an honest admission of “I don’t know it all and probably what I think I know may need further investigation…” There is so much to say and so much to sort through and the arguments here in this thread can not be satisfied for any one of us in this type of forum. We are all living in an illusion created by masters of deception hell bent on controlling the masses through many devices, institutions and undue influence as they find successful. Welcome to the Luciferian Initiation in this age that has been successfully foisted upon every human being thanks to the power of the United Nations and the control worldwide even into your little back yard…and AA has been a huge part of that desired Paradigm Shift: Out with the old in with the new. INDOCTRI NATION…
So everyone is brainwashed except you? Well please don’t ‘rock the boat’.
Many people remain quiet in the guise of ‘humility’ but really because they are just fatuous and suspect their ideas would not withstand public scrutiny. Same for organizations – that’s how AA got so popular. In the internet age, it seems to me that humility or fear of retribution is no longer a valid defense. All ideas, no matter how heretical, can now see the light of day.
You seem still willing to defend the killer cult, despite recognizing some of its failures. Are you still involved in it? Somehow I get the feeling that you are. How subversive!
It works, therer aim is hope and its not a contentious debate, yet it works, if your path works great live well, and drink! You may be sceptic its not a cult im sure some you know or is related to you is a true alcoholic so i bet you no first hand about the grief it causes right?
I am a member and all ive been taught is how to love people and examine my true natures of self centeredness. You may call it brain washing i call it the same teaching, the carpenter, mohammad, and other Gods prophets
You were taught you were powerless. Remember that? Well you never believed it. But you’re happy to require others to believe it. Even if it kills them.
I don’t know a true alcoholic. Neither do you.
Please, post your drunkalog. Let’s see how you used AA as a drinking club. You claimed to be powerless to alcohol, and drank excessively for many years. Until you got too old to play the games (the chicks scattered when you entered the room), so you returned to AA and chose a god to remove your ‘character defects’. Now you claim it made you a goodly person, and you teach the process to others, and what’s so wrong about that? First just admit you’re powerless to alcohol…
I totally understant what you had to day, please give me more
It was interesting reading this. I am an AA member. I am also a Christian…..very devout and lover of CHRIST!!! There is ONLY one God. I struggled with the polytheistic aspect of the program for some time initially. “How could they talk of the ‘god of their understanding.'” It really disturbed me. I prayed about it for sometime. The following is what God revealed to me. I will tell you ahead of time if you have a problem with the validity of scriptures then this would mean nothing to you.
Hebrews 11:6
6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him. For he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
1 Corinthians 9:20-23
20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.
There are MANY people hurting. I have to trust God to reveal Himself to those that earnestly seek Him. If I can do any kind of influencing there for Him then I am doing as He would have me. Besides, if they get sober and stop hurting themselves and others, who am I to say that is evil!!!! I assure you they are better than they were. Can I deny a Muslim or Hindu recovery? That is not my job. I NEVER tell a sponsee they can create God. I speak in depth about their spiritual beliefs before I sponsor anyone. I might would refer them to someone else if they don’t identify themselves as Christian because I SURELY have a lot of Christian influence in my recovery. I believe in Christ with ALLLLLLL my heart. I would not know how to approach that because I HAVE to be honest. Perhaps God would show me how to approach that but I would likely refer them to someone more “open-minded” than me. Truth is truth…..I see a lot of people get hung up over the “god of understanding part.” They get an INSANE understanding!!!!
I am sorry you had a bad experience. No one should have ever asked you to leave unless it was a closed meeting and you refused to say you were alcoholic. Closed meetings are for those serious in recovery as we get many from the court systems. But I want to discourage such postings. Powerlessness……that is BASIC Operant Conditioning…..BF SKINNER!!!! Read up on his pigeons some time……having once had a reward. They repeated the same behaviors to the point of physical exhaustion trying to get the rewards again. Before a spiritual awakening…..we act based on flesh and our conditioned behavior from childhood. For us addicts and alcoholics…..We have YEARS of conditioned alcohol and drugs fixing all the problems. That is hard to break. They say gambling addiction is even worse!!! That is science….psychology…..apart from what scriptures say. Scriptures go deeper as to WHY. Grateful for AA. I hope no one dies from not going to meeting because of ignorant posts such as this. Of course you would never know the person or his/her family affected from your post. Careful with your words and posts. Tongue is a very powerful weapon. One has the ability to cast spells if one hears the words and believes them!!!! May God Bless you my friend!!!!
I did not have a bad experience at AA. For the most part I’ve enjoyed it. I don’t really care about getting thrown out of meetings. There are more than enough other meetings to attend. I mention it only because it supports my claim that AA requires you to admit you are powerless to alcohol, and until then keep drinking (i.e. drinking club).
My problem is that AA is a religion, for you as for others, and addiction is not a disease, although it is taught as such at AA. Addiction is actually a religion as well (idolatry of ‘King Alcohol’). If you revealed the details of your ‘suffering’ this fact would be obvious. It sucks to get old. Tell me about it. But that doesn’t mean that we are diseased, and the other people who seem to deal with it more gracefully are just lucky. No, we are all the same. If we choose to drink to feel better, then that is a choice. Not a symptom of a disease/malady/defect.
Again, I don’t care that AA is religious/Christian/Pagan/Satan/Muslim/Hindu/etc. That’s fine. The problem is that it crosses the line into medicine. And to justify that, it brainwashes some people into excessive drinking/drug use and powerlessness, and some of those people die. Are you powerless to your disease? Have you tried to convince others that they are too? I hope no one dies as a result. If you have not considered that possibility, then perhaps it’s time to give it some serious thought. “Careful with your words. One has the ability to cast spells.”
And talk about suffering: actually AA makes things worse for most people, by convincing them they have a disease and thereby avoid the underlying issues that cause their pain. Which only serves to prolong it. Of course there is a lot of suffering! Just be careful about which religion you turn to to seek solace for it, is all I’m saying. Are you proud of your support for an an admittedly Pagan (and sometimes Satanic) organization?
“The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”
How did the god of your understanding respond to the “Skinner Pigeon” excuse?
From a Christian perspective, man’s suffering and toil is a consequence of his disobedience, not character defects, nor does its god offer to remove them. Just demands that you follow the rules despite them. AA really has it all backwards, and that’s why Paganism is the only viable option. I really can’t imagine how you reconcile your beliefs. Though “Celebrate Recovery” certainly wants us to think it’s possible!
“Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil; neither shalt thou speak in a cause to decline after many to wrest judgment. Neither shalt thou countenance a poor man in his cause.” (Exodus 23:2)
(If you have a problem with the scripture then this would mean nothing to you.)
I review other incompatibilities with Christianity: AA is a Pagan Cult
My Gratitude goes out to AddictionMyth and it’s many critics. Your insights, opinions, misconceptions and misinterpretations are PRICELESS!
I am a card carrying stone cold Atheist and a member in service of AA. My Dark Lord, Whom I choose to call by his ‘free name’ Lucifer and not his ‘slave name’ Satan, compels me to be the quintessential contrairian and devil’s advocate. In the name of Minority Opinion I’d like to bring a few points to light that I didn’t just make up; they are accepted consensus amongst the unwashed masses..
1) Alcoholism is an addiction. Alcohol is a drug akin chemically to Ether and produces the same effect.
2) Belief in religion and a supreme being is a addiction that many use to replace alcoholism.
3) Humans are inherently flawed whether addicts or not.
4) American Medical Association accepts alcoholism/addiction a disease. The same argument could be made for mental disease that have no physiological cause. It’s a itragenic condition;it’s not cancer
5) The Big Book was an attempt to marry psychology and religion. It failed on that front. That is why the 12 and 12 was written 15 years later.
6) god doesn’t give a damn whether you die drunk,sober,strung out, sinner or saint.
7) A belief that there is a ‘caring, loving god’ that is somehow like us is pure arrogance and conciet.
8) Bill W. clamored for a drink on his deathbed.
9) If AA is a cult, then it’s a pretty poor excuse for one. The 12 traditions see to it that we are more of a secret society than a business.
10) Harm Reduction often fails and this is why the Treatment community is beginning to an attitude of abstinence much like a 12 step program; despite the argument that replacing alcohol with god IS Harm Reduction.
11) Less enlightened people need brainwashing because they have dirty minds and can’t bring themselves to drink bleach.
12) AA is not a sacred institution; It’s a tool to use as one sees fit as long as it assists in an attempt to recover from a hopeless state of mind and body. The Oxford group was religious. AA is not Pagan. I am. AA claims to be ‘spiritual’. Religion is for people who are afraid to go to Hell; Spirituality is for people who have already been there.
“the road to knowledge is paved with excess”. What makes anyone think that an addictive mind is a bad thing? Nonsense. It is an enhancement when directed properly. The substances (narcotics/alcohol) don’t have a say, do they? If you hear god or booze talking to you then check yourself into a rubber room in the Laughing Academy.
I am deadly serious.
Stay open-minded, consider the source, and weigh all sides, my friends…
First of all, you are atheist and Satanic? That seems contradictory. Because atheist means you don’t believe in gods, and Satan is a god. Or is he not? I guess I don’t know my theology too good sorry. Please forgive this ignorant soul. Or is contradiction simply a tenant of Satanism? Now that’d be cool.
And secondly, according to your statements, alcoholism is real, but it can be cured by a belief in religion/god that is not real. (In fact that is fake and simply a product of arrogance and conceit.) Well, to me it seems weird that a disease can be cured by a belief in something fake. I mean, what other diseases can be cured by a belief, let alone a false one? It seems to me more likely that the “disease” was fake to begin with. Which would then easily explain why it can be cured by something fake. (Imagine children playing “Doctor I have pappendiosis.”) Furthermore, the fact that the first step in curing the disease is *admitting that you have it*, seems to me pretty suggestive evidence that it’s fake. Though certainly, not proof by itself. And the last step is convincing others they have it too. I mean, seriously?
Well I realize that Satanists probably don’t have much interest in basic logic. So I don’t expect a coherent answer. But it seems to me that you’re just making it more clear that alcoholism is a completely fake disease, and its biggest supporters are pagans and satanists (and confused or retarded Christians and alienated half-bloods) for whom it’s a convenient excuse for mischief. And probably don’t mind very much if other people get killed because of the belief.
Anyway, Lord Boxington, glad we could entertain you with our “misconceptions and misinterpretations”. If you give anything close to a coherent answer I’d be shocked. And something other than “you wouldn’t understand” or “you’re too angry, hateful and/or ignorant to understand” or “you’d have to complete the steps to really understand” or “your misconceptions are just too cute and I wouldn’t want to disabuse you of them” or “you already seem to know it all so what’s the point” or “no one really knows but sure we could talk about it forever but this conversation has become tiresome and I have demons to conjure” or “because the doctors say so (even though I don’t believe half of what they say but you can if you want)” or “you’re too good looking to be of any interest to Lucifer” (SO tired of that one) or “I could tell you but then I’d have to dispatch you forthwith to heaven with all the other losers.”
Or how about: “Oh sorry I was just pasting together a bunch of things I heard at meetings and my LuciferLives message board. Hope you liked it! Also, any news on Darth Vader Voice Transformer Beta 3? I’m so excited!!”
Well I suspect you’re long gone by now. But if you read this, please ask “The Father of Light” to send more meth & whiskey!! Thanks and Yum!!!
Oh Please! Review the definition of a Cult.
Although AA has some tenants that they Suggest it’s members believe in, and follow, that is where the similarities end.
Cults Demand Obedience. everything in AA is a Suggestion. “Take what you like and leave the rest” is a common saying in AA.
Cults generally have 1 leader who is the supreme authority on all issues (and usually profits greatly by taking advantage of his followers”
allegience). AA’s authority: “for our group purpose there is one authority, a lover higher power as he may express himself in our Group Conscience”. Cults usually demand all your money and resources and separate you from all other influences.
AA is maintained by voluntary donations- a basket is passed, there is no pressure to donate, groups will often give books to a newcomer who can’t afford it. The fact that there Is No Charge (by itself) takes it out of the cult category! No one person profits from this basket. AA helps the recovering alcoholic restore broken relationships by taking responsibility for his or her part in all aspects of life. As for the steps and meetings: when drugs and alcohol have been the driving force and means of coping in your life, it is generally necessary to find something to replace it- something that restores esteem and offers a spiritual basis. The steps do this. Staying clean and sober for a few months in the controled environment of rehab. Is relatively easy…..staying clean amidst the pressures and pleasures of the real world for any length of time is a far greater challenge. AA is the Only program that offers long term help in staying sober, and Demands Nothing in return. It has changed more lives for the better than all the religions combined, while at the same time encouraging many to find a faith and perhaps even a religion of their own. It’s the best show on earth- and the stories are better than reality tv and it’s Friggen Free! What the hell else do you want. And more importantly, what do u have to offer that works better and charges less?
Greatful for 27 clean and sober years, and obedient to no cult, no person but my higher power and good heart.
AA is a cult that seeks not money, but the blood of its members.
You say it’s the ‘Best show on earth’? Please, entertain us. Tell us your story. Who died for your sins?
If we question the validity of addiction, then addicts will have to be seen as responsible for their own behavior, which is something they don’t want.
Are you or is anyone you know an addict?
Addict of food, sugar, coffee….
Addict of sex in any form
Addict of self hate. In any form. Cutting, anorexia, bulemia, obesity….
Addict of abuse. Molestation, physical abuse even spritual abuse such as yelling at husband, wife, children and pets.
Addict of faith. Must go to church and believe what you believe or others are damned.
We are all addicts of some form.
Shame on those who judge another while they them self are not without sin.
If not yourself then no one you know?
Where is the compassion?
Such a quick response about the responsibility of an addict when the story may be deeper.
Victims of rape, child abuse – spiritual, mental, verbal…..
We are all fighting some kind of battle.
Don’t feed the demon ego who thrives on others who are weaker.
Patr is probably just another pseudonym for AddictionMoron.
Either way, he is broadcasting via his rectum. It is easy to smear an entire class of people from an anonymous platform such as this. Patr and AddictionMoron are ignorant, or expressing their ego defenses for having failed. Either way, they are pathetic.
I’m an addict of many things, not the least of which: caffeine, cro-nuts, and cuddles. The difference? It’s not a disease or defect or allergy, even if my work, health, or social life suffers because of them, or even if I believe that I’m going to die without them. I recognize that my response is a choice, and I know the consequences. I don’t put other people at risk because of it, nor do I brainwash and kill people to convince everyone that it’s a disease. But you feel perfectly justified to do just that. You benefit off the destruction of the weaker. YOU are the ‘demon ego’!
I am weak and pathetic. OK you got me there. Happy now?
Also I am not without sin. The difference? I don’t blame it on a disease! Get it?? Of course not. Pagan AA zealots can justify anything. The irony is that they know to their very core that they’re wrong. To the extent that they have to invent their own religion/gods/pathosis to justify it. And meet secretly to exchange stories of mischief and validate each other!
We look forward to posting your confession on “My Fake Addiction”.
As usual, your weak point is your adherence to your belief that you just know it all. The real problem for me is my thinking. As it says clearly in the Big Book: “Our liquor was but a symptom.”
Of what? Our own emotional problems, springing from a variety of experiences and bad programming. It doesn’t mean I am weak, defective or any of the other distortions you claim here. The reason I like AA is that it is a place where I can work on those problems with decent, like-minded people. Whether or not I buy the “addiction” line or not, I have to work on my problems, not someone elses. You ought to try it, it might revolutionize your pathetic, dishonest thinking. Remember, “your” problems.
As to the God thing. I use a lot of ideas from different systems of spiritual thinking that help me. Another big fat lie you tell is that AA is pagan. It is non-denominational, and this is clearly stated in the BB and traditions. It is a broad door, so everyone can get in. Just because you are too egotistical and dishonest to truly surrender to a program that could help you does not make it wrong. It just makes you wrong.
One of the best men I ever knew was a gentleman who did free therapy for a church. I asked him once if he believed in all the doctrine of our church. He said, “No, but I love the Lord, and I can do as much good here as in any other church.” Joseph Campbell, for me, essentially saw religion/spirituality as a society trying to grasp ways we could all self-actualize (the journey), fulfilling the spiritual yearning of all men/women. You seem to see yourself as the highest authority. How’s that working out for you? You don’t seem real happy, or well adjusted…
When my daughter was about three, she started biting people. After she bit me a couple times, I bit her back. She screamed and said, “You bit me, Daddy!” I said, “Yeah, hurts don’t it,” the hugged her. She quit biting people. Doubt your nasty, snotty, finger-pointing arrogant little ass will get the point here.
So finally, our last farewell. Talking to you is like trying to teach a pig to fly. You get mad and the pig is just confused. Sure you’ll have lots of snappy shit to say, bit you’ll just be talking to yourself. As to Marcus Aurelius being disappointed in me, I think when he got a load of what a lying, manipulating, harmful piece of work you are, he probably would have requested your suicide.
You BIT your daughter?? What is wrong with you? You are a bad person! Don’t be so angry, hateful, and ignorant! Your daughter is obviously struggling with some emotional issue, and must be dealt with compassionately, as if she is a sick person. The biting is but a symptom of a much deeper problem. She must choose a HP and ask it to remove her anger and aggression, which cause the resentments that cause the biting. And of course demand rigorous honesty! Then her biting will go away. If she is really ready to admit she has a problem, of course. This can take time. But you must have patience. The process will work if she works it! Never seen it fail!
Seriously, if only someone had bitten you earlier, you might not be the way you are now. I mean for example, if I express my opinion I’m a know-it-all. But your opinions are perfectly valid (even if hurled with vitriol) because you’re humble and go to meetings (and the realization that your thinking was your problem somehow validates it). I suspect the reason you keep coming back is simply that you know you’re wrong. Like your daughter, you will keep biting until someone bites you back. Well sorry but I’m not going to sink to your level. I will remain honest, fair, logical, clear and compassionate, and avoid personal insults, comparisons to animals/body parts, or prescriptions for suicide. But please don’t be offended by my bluntness.
Maybe your parents didn’t do their job. (The persistent, extreme anger you have toward me could certainly be explained as transference.) The best you can do is break the cycle. Show your daughter loving discipline, reinforce her own instinct of right and wrong (which is often really what children seek from a parent when they misbehave: spare the rod, spoil the child), and maybe she’ll turn out to be a good Christian girl. Believe me there are worse things!
Also: I do not claim you are weak or defective. Yes there are people who criticize AA on that front. I am not one of them.
I claim that you brainwash OTHERS to believe that their brain has a certain defect/condition/pathosis that leaves them powerless to alcohol and drugs, which results in excessive drinking/drug use and sometimes death. And that AA is the only known effective cure.
Also the Big Book claims that alcoholics are no more angry or resentful than the average man (basically true). But that these emotions are deadly due to the aforementioned defect (false), which is why you need a special club to manage it. That’s basic AA/BB theology/psychology.
You are an ass and clearly have no problem judging another human being ( a job for only GOD himself)!!!! Walk a mile in another’s shoes.. Isn’t that how the saying goes??? This is rubbish! If millions of people are finding a new design for living- clearly this works!! The only people on here bitching are the ones not willing to follow a few simple suggestions!!
So you can judge me but I can’t judge you? That’s pure hypocrisy. It’s fine if you judge me, I don’t mind. Be my guest! But don’t bitch and cry when I do the same.
Millions of people discovered that they need not continue to escape the wife and family and roam for sex under cover of drunkenness. Well that’s great. The only problem? That was AFTER they got too old to enjoy it much more anyway. In the mean time, keep drinking and having fun! When you’re ‘done’ we’ll be waiting with a few ‘simple suggestions’ you can use to justify your behavior and spread it to the next generation.
Please, post your drunkalog. It will reveal this simple fact. Of course, you never will. But that’s ok. Anyone can hear the same story at their local AA meeting. “I got drunk, I got high, I went online and cruised for sex.” “When I start drinking, I can’t stop until I find myself in bed with a fat chick.”
Well, that’s fine with me, and I’m not proud of my own drunken shenanigans. The difference? I don’t blame it on a pathosis. It was my choice, even if I wasn’t satisfied with the outcome. You refuse to acknowledge this simple difference because it immediately debunks your religion. In fact, I doubt you could even characterize this difference in your own caustic words. It would be too embarrassing! And what is that redness and burning in your cheeks as you think about what I just said? Uh oh must be those darn “thinking problems” again. Better run to a meeting!
This is so fantastic! i have been reading all the comments and belly laughing for the past 15 minutes. Thank you for brightening my day. AA is by far not a religion. In a religion we all believe in the same ‘god’ where in AA we can believe in whatever we want. I personally have taken from the Buddhist, Hindu, Tao, Christian, Jewish and Muslim beliefs and rolled them into practices and beliefs that I can work with. No one has EVER told me in a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous that i must believe in Jesus Christ. That in itself would go against the preamble that states that we are not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organization or institution. This is a god of MY understanding, no one elses. A god personal to me. You are right, AA doesnt work for everyone. As a Certified Peer Specialist, I see this everyday. There are many ways to recovery and the book of Alcoholics Anonymous will tell you that we have no monopoly. Obviously, you have not read and studied the book and are making deadly statements based on an obvious resentment. That’s fine. I too, probably could have quit drinking on my own, but I would be as angry as you. I refuse to live that way today. AA has shown me my character defects and I have admitted ALL my wrongs done others as well as ALL the wrongs done me. It has given me a process (the steps) to overcome these things and work through them so that they no longer control my life. For example, I was molested by a family member as a young child for over two years. I held this in for 15 years and let it eat at me. i drank over it and yes i used drugs also to help cover the pain until alcohol and drugs controlled every aspect of my life. I came into AA and got a sponsor…yes a sponsor…and we worked through it together. I have now been able to forgive this man for what he did to me and form a relationship. I couldnt have done that without AA. Now I speak of the abuse in meetings because it is an experience that I can share with others who may be hiding the same thing. AA saved my life. i no longer have to do anything alone EVER again. there will always be someone by my side in whatever i am facing at any given moment. I am grateful that i have been shown my defects so that i can attempt to better myself and become a genuinely good human being. It has worked for millions and continues to work for newcomers everyday. I have absolutely not been brainwashed, this is a decision i have made on my own, after exploring other ways of recovery and failing. Just because it didnt work for you dont hinder others from giving it a try because it may save their life. and like I said, it doesnt work for everyone, but it DOES for ALL who honestly try and do the work. I have NEVER seen it fail for those who THOROUGHLY followed our path. I had to work to get my alcohol and drugs and Im sure willing to work at recovery!
AA is certainly not Christian, I agree. It is a Pagan cult in which each member chooses their own god and prays to it to remove their character defects (that cause the resentments that power the cravings). That’s fine, of course, freedom of religion, etc., but how many years did you waste convincing yourself that you were powerless to alcohol and drugs, and spend fighting your cravings, which only allowed you to avoid the underlying issue, which you admit was the abuse? (And by the way, there aren’t supposed to be any underlying problems according to Big Book dogma, other than the allergy/malady/disease/defect.) And how many times did you come close to overdoing it in the false belief that you were truly powerless to your cravings?
Yes it’s great that AA provides free therapy. But it creates far more suffering than it solves. You were lucky because of your willingness to accept various spiritual beliefs that you could hold on to. But normally that doesn’t happen until middle age for most people. So what about the young people who have more interest in fun and sex than Higher Powers? AA offers little for them other than a justification to give into their cravings and have fun and blame King Alcohol. At least until they get too old for those games, and suddenly discover their spiritual side, but that takes 20 years, especially for men. How long did it take you?
Young people? i am only 27…i got sober at 23. I hang out with a group of “young people” my age. All between the ages of 20-30 and all with long term recovery. In my area there are about 40 of us. AA doesnt say i cant have sex, it just tells me not to hurt other people in the process. Also, being molested wasnt my only underlying issue. The Big Book tells us to get down to the causes and conditions because drinking was just a symptom of a much deeper problem. And that problem is different for everyone. But once we figure out what it is and take steps to right our wrongs and find forgiveness, we recover. and i will always be grateful I dont have to live in my past anymore. I am not the things that are done to me, i am what i overcome.
Ha! Got ya thinking. 🙂
Don’t feel bad I used to believe it too.
But yes, the Big Book clearly states that there is no psychological cause of addiction. In fact, that is the main point of the book: “The delusion that we are like other people, or presently may be, has to be smashed.” You are taught that you are mentally and physically different from everyone else. But in reality, you were just avoiding issues by drinking. And if that was what you had to do for a few years to cope, then so be it. But no need to claim you have a disease, above all the other issues. Why make it even harder on yourself? Also, I commend you for speaking openly about your past, and I’m sure it is helpful to others, even if it conflicts with AA dogma.
Also, AA has never been proven effective. The young people you hang out with are no more likely to remain sober than people who don’t go to AA, and this is well-established scientific fact. Also, they are more likely to binge when they relapse, because that is the natural response to abstinence, and because they are taught (brainwashed) they can’t control their intake. You and they can all drink normally now, even if you now revel in your new-found religion of powerlessness, which will provide a convenient excuse to relapse for some (The Drinking Club), and which sometimes can be deadly (e.g. Cory Monteith).
And oh yeah, whoever taught you that everyone in a religion has to believe in the same god(s)? That’s just false. There are many examples of pan/poly-theistic religions without rigid belief requirements. (You may recall, Judeo-Christian monotheism and laws were introduced as a response to paganism/polytheism, and that is not a judgment, just plain old history. Repeating itself.)
So remember to pray to your HPs every day. And make sure they don’t all take a smoke break at the same time!
How many times did you come close to overdoing it in the false belief that you were truly powerless to your cravings? Seriously, don’t hara kiri to justify some random jerk’s mischief. Make us live with the shame. We’ll get over it.
If I can admit that I am powerless over alcohol…why would I want to relapse? Today I do have full control over the first drink…it’s the second and third and twentieth I have no control over. I have no control over black outs and jails. I have no control over possible looong prison sentences, driving drunk and hurting people I care about. I had a few months sober at one time and went out for just one drink and it ended up in a blackout and me getting arrested. I don’t even remember taking the second drink. I don’t care what form of recovery people use as long as they recover. AA just so happen to be what worked for me after I tried other ways and failed. My life is far too important today for me to try controlled drinking. My past attempts have proven failure. Something clearly happened to you in a meeting that you can’t get over. I’m sorry for whatever that was but not everyone in AA is there for recovery. Most are, yes, but there are those who prey on others and you’re right…they make a bad name for all of us. We aren’t all bad. And this program does work and that’s why the courts send us people who are in trouble because of alcohol and drugs. It fits take work and sometimes painful admissions of situations but it is beyond worth it to live in peace and serenity and finally love myself and others.
Wow I thought you were the innocent brainwashed. But you are actually the brainwashing demon! I would love to hear the story of your mischief and crimes. Please post!
You’re still young. Your trouble making days are not behind you. Most men don’t sober up until middle age, unless they are defective in some way. Women earlier, except if they are trying to act like one of the boys. But I am no longer concerned for you. You don’t believe you are powerless, you just demand it from others, along with their ‘rigorous honesty’, promising the keys to happiness in return. Well I’m sure you’ll find a convenient time to relapse, sooner or later. Be sure to get a good story! Don’t forget to embellish, and here are some tips.
The only thing that happened to me in a meeting was people like you. Thanks for being another vivid demonstration of the Addiction Myth!
(Wow a criminal with good spelling. That’s the closest thing to a miracle I’ve ever seen in AA!)
So much anger.
It mustn’t be easy carrying around so much anger.
I’m sorry for your pain.
God bless you and know that you are loved.
I am with you, AnomymousHuman. It must be difficult for “Addiction” to carry that basket of angry, squirming eels around on his shoulders. Perhaps we should pray for him. His lying makes it hard for me to feel the compassion for him I know I should. Well, that’s my water to carry, anyway…
I appreciate the sympathy, and please post the names of your gods so that I can invoke them next time I need a little help getting in the mood for a bender to ease all my pain.
Nope, AddictionManiac, I would not give a lying buffoon like you a shred of information for the goofy golf course you call a brain to work with.
You are truly “chock full o’ nuts!” You can’t toe a consistent line from day to day and constantly contradict your own blogs. The only positive thing I have to say about you is you are very creative. Unfortunately, you represent it as truth.
I doubt you understand this, but representing fantasy as truth is called lying.
Why don’t you turn your rusty bear trap of a mind on yourself, perhaps in a few years you’ll discover how empty your clue-bag is…
I will pray for u .
Why would anyone in recovery respond to this idiot?
Recovery = Don’t cross me or I’ll drink!
Maybe looking for an excuse to drink? Sometimes people in meetings report looking for something to trigger an excuse to justify having a drink.
Some of us are sicker than others. Now, before that gets your delicate panties in a bunch, AddictionMoron, what that means is how far along we are in working on character defects. And don’t go into a stupefyingly boring tizz about AA saying we are defective humans, because that is another twisting of words.
I am sure Harry can see that you are an idiot, and accept you just as you are, without wanting to drink over your scintillatingly stupid rants. You certainly aren’t worth losing a moments sleep
over, much less ones’ sobriety.
Before we can make good decisions, and take right action, we must have right perception. Why don’t you try working on worrying about your character defects, rather than those of others? Then perhaps you could see the world a little more clearly, rather than filtered through your own fecally-contaminated attitudes. It would be a pleasure to hear something rational from you instead of the filthy miasma of putrescent half-truths and childish fantasies and fabrications we hear from you now.
In clear language, so you can understand: Grow up a little!!
I see very clearly what happened. You engaged in drunken debauchery for many years, and then you got too old to play those games. Well that’s actual pretty normal, join the club. We’re not proud but we’ll get over it.
But you couldn’t get over it. You had to invent a disease/religion to justify and explain your ‘irresponsibility’. Then, you brainwash people into believing they are powerless and they kill themselves. Don’t believe me? Just go to any meeting and see for yourself. An aging man will describe his last 3-day booze/crack fest ending in unsatisfactory coitus, and a younger woman will remind everyone that she must remain eternally vigilant against her ‘cunning and baffling’ disease.
Will she die for your mischief?
Wow, AddictionMoron, put down the pipe, and slowly back away!!
Your delusional and confabulist thinking is on particularly good display today…
Indeed, when there are no rational arguments left you, you just fabricate horse spoor to smear others with.
Get a life…
Please, please post your drunkalog. Prove me wrong. But you will be the exception, based on what I’ve heard at every meeting I’ve ever been to.
Your twisted perceptions are no concern of mine. If you had any sense, you would concern yourself with them. That is why you hear no good when you go to meetings. Listening with ears wide shut.
You Will not here from me again as I am feeling this chatter you seek will only hurt the sick and suffering Alcoholic.
I will say good by with this. and if anyone is having a tough time with booze as I did. Please read my earlier post. Your not alone. AA works if you work it!
We who have tried all avenues to stop drinking and were stymied each and every time; found away to stay sober, AA>>>> Who my higher power is; Is irrelevant. It’s just not me.. G.O.D. worked for me when I came into the AA halls, GROUP OF DRUNKS. It still dose 20 years latter. I will have my hand ready for the sick and suffering alcoholic when they reach out for help. You my sad friend are hurting people, and very possible putting them 6 feet under with your smart words and little knowledge. You are like the guy we all see when we refer to a troll on line. You are officially ignored.
If you are a hurting Alcoholic; I will do anything I can to help you get started with staying away from a drink, one day at a time. You can find me in a AA meeting, Ill raise my hand in a open meeting stating I would be a temporary sponsor to help show you how other sober alcoholics helped me get started in AA. If your wondering why I am still at meetings 20 years latter! I am listing to what happens to people when they stop going to meetings. That will keep you sober. Al M
My web site is saving lives, and protecting people from the G.O.D.-worshipping predators at AA.
Who died for your sins? Please, post your drunkalog. Let the reader decide who poses the real danger.
You, saving lives? There goes that savior complex again!!
Forget our medications this morning, did we??
We don’t talk about drugs or religion and don’t help addicts. We have no solution for drug addicts in AA. So you can have any view you’d like, but dont marry AA with addiction or religion please. We have a solution for drunks. And that solution is available for anyone who has a problem with alcohol. The whole fellowship is a suggestion that an individual can either take or not take. So much is the freedom of AA that there is nothing asked of anyone that walks in the doors. I don’t know where you’ve acquired your hypothesis on AA and it’s members, but I think your outlook upon it is incredibly askew. AA doesn’t need any individual member to survive to the point that if you are found out to not be alcoholic that you don’t need to be there and should go on about your life. And that if you may or may not have a problem, but you’re not convinced, that you keep drinking and enjoy yourself.
AA has no requirement other than that you truly believe you are powerless to alcohol; but unless and until you’ve convinced yourself and the experts at AA, you will be asked to leave, so keep drinking and having fun! And of course, stop in every once in a while to see for how long you can fool us again!
Thank you I couldn’t have said it better: AA is a drinking club that doubles as a brainwashing cult of powerlessness.
You are truly a babbling moronic jackass. Nobody is ever asked to leave an AA meeting. So much of what you say in this blog is utterly untrue that you must either be a chronic liar or mentally ill. Get some help dude!!
I’ve been asked to leave many times, and simply because I did not claim to have a desire to stop drinking: http://addictionmyth.com/denied-denied/
Exactly as the commenter said, you are asked to leave if it is felt that you don’t need to be there.
Other times they let me stay. It all depends on logic that is beyond my limited capacity to comprehend.
Closed meetings are for people who have a desire to stop drinking. It has to do with annonimitty. Open meetings are for everyone. If you have no desire to stop drinking then what do you care about any of this? Or are we AA’s falling into your little game? Like I said befor….I wish you the peace i have tonight because of AA my friend. Remember the doors are always open for those who have a desire to stop. You definitely sound like one of us. Like your brain just wont stop. Its exhausting right? My racing thoughts have stopped and I can sleep. Goodnight.:)
So, question about being asked to leave? If you know closed meetings are for those with a desire to stop drinking, and you have no such desire, why go there? Just to make trouble? If you went there, knowing the rules, and were then asked to leave, according to same rules, how do you figure you have a right to complain? Self-fulfilling prophecy, I will go there, knowing I already hate the system, and gain justification for my actions when the system does exactly what I know it will? Pathetic.
As to open meetings, I have never seen anyone asked to leave unless they were repeatedly disruptive. I have seen drunks attending both types of meetings interrupt multiple times and not be ejected, if they would quiet down…Why were you were asked to leave? What sort of person goes where he knows he shouldn’t be, makes trouble, and then whines about being asked to leave?
Your own words here expose you as a troublemaking malcontent. That it is due to your particular personality defects, I am sure, but those are yours to iron out, not take out on others. You are a truly odious specimen.
actually the meetings are for those people exploring a way to recovery. We get people in meetings that are drunk all the time. If they arent supposed to be at the meetings, then i have no idea who is. we are to help the next sick and suffering alcoholic and they are right, if you have no desire to stop drinking, why do you go to meetings? Even the drunk people that come have a desire to quit. and it is a DESIRE to stop drinking. it doesnt say that you actually have to quit, yes, we prefer it that way, but you just have to want to stop and we will give you a solution. That doesnt even mean that you will accept the solution or do the work required, but it is my responsibility to keep my hand our for those who have that desire. There is a woman i know who has been in and out of AA longer than i have been alive and is still drinking, but her life is a little bit better having been exposed and I never know when it will be the time she may get recovery. Therefore, i keep my hand out. Dont judge the whole program because of one person. Its not right. You are missing the reality and the beauty of the forest because you have been diverted by the ugliness of some of its trees.
Kudos, “I Refuse.” Thanks for telling it like it is. Don’t hold out too much hope for AddictionMorose” right now, though. He seems to enjoy wallowing in his grump…
The woman you know is another victim of the AA cult that taught her she was powerless to her cravings. The fact is, there is a simple reason for her drinking. For young women it is often resentment towards mother (revenge for not feeling adequately loved). For older women… could be lots of things (e.g. self medication for sex torture). But there is a simple reason, that you are encouraging her to avoid by insisting that her problem is ‘alcoholism’.
Have her contact me. I offer FREE counseling for addiction. I’ll figure it out in 10 minutes!
Wow…more horse poo. AA does not offer therapy, AddictionMoron, and I wouldn’t let you diagnose my toaster.
People who can not be honest with themselves can’t get the program. I see your lies here, and that is all the diagnostic we have to perform on you…
Day at a times thoughts have stopped! Great sign.
Indeed, “limited capacity” describes your ability to comprehend to a tee!
Don’t whine, you said it yourself.
Well said!!!
Park Ave to park benches….Jimmy H would say that. Looooove that. AA has saved my life. You will either get it or you won’t. That my friend is none of my business.Peace be with you tonight as it is with me. Just remember the door is always open. 🙂 12/28/2010.
Oh that Jimmy H. He had some great stories. What a rascal!
Addictionmyth, you do great work here, I hope you keep it up.
The only thing working here is “Myths”‘paranoia. And in overdrive.
He really should reconsider accepting medication.
Thanks Patr, I’m glad someone out there appreciates my work!
AddictionMoron
Who writes this? I cannot find anyone’s name. It seems very cowardly to write such sarcastic remarks about a situation you have obviously never dealt with personally. If you feel bold enough to put down people who are trying to better themselves, then why don’t you sign your name?
I’ve asked my HP many times to remove my cowardice. Dunno what’s going on. Perhaps I can borrow your HP for a bit? I mean, if he could remove your cowardice and ‘uncontrollable cravings’ (after what, 20 years of philandering?) then maybe he can take a whack at mine. Shouldn’t be more than a few years, right? Who is your HP anyway? Please post. But if it’s Burt Reynolds, then thanks but no thanks. Been there done that.
Seriously, feel free to better yourself. But not at the expense of innocent lives. I know you’re pagan and all, and I respect that, but human scapegoating is just not cool. (RIP Phillip Seymour Hoffman)
Why don’t you ask him to remove your idiocy. That would be far more helpful here.
Are you kidding?? That was #1 on my list!!
RE: Addiction Myth.
Their are a host of more educated men and woman than my self, Dr.s Psychiatrists, and clergy alike. Certainly many of which; with their education can talk with captivating words strung together to enhance their thoughts and possible my perception regarding alcoholism. Letters that follow their name on a plaque can compel us to feel the buck stops there. A fellow drunk; arriving to AA from “Park street or a Park bench” talking one on one was my savior. One alcoholic sharing with another, helping another alcoholic.
I have a bunch of days sober back to back and have had the extreme fortune to here and meet so, so many that have come in the door of AA that have talked about, The Drs, the multiple detox’s they attended, the clergy that have tried to help them and they could not get sober, like me! We found AA and and some how it worked and everything ells did not. This AA stuff cost nothing! Thees people wanted nothing!
I thought at first they must want my soul or the title on my home or my first born; They just wanted one more day of sobriety and I was told I kept a few of them sober when they saw my ass walk in the door.
They are my best friends, They are Drs, Lawyers, judges, mailmen, roofers, real-estate, developers agents, gas station mechanics, attendants, Dentists, Psychiatrists, pharmacists, Clergy, your next door neighbors son, brother, mom, dad, aunt, uncle. Politician’s , police men, fire men, paramedics, salesclerk. crossing guard, teacher’s principles, veterans.
Bill Wilson was no different than me or them. Dr Bob was case in point! The heart felt concern from loved ones with tears in the eye and the Drs and and judges saying your at end. And still we drank. Drank till we were hospitalized, imprisoned or embalmed; all the while killing slowly the ones we loved. The lucky ones hit there bottom and it wasn’t death and found AA.
Sir you are playing God telling the sick and suffering that AA is not for them. I simple know that AA asks nothing of me except to to be responsible in that.
I am responsible. When anyone, anywhere reaches out for help, I want the hand of AA always to be there. And for that: I am responsible. One drunk helping another drunk.
I say this as when my score card read zero and I had tried everything ells. I found AA and the people in it; AA The fellowship; the people in it, wanted nothing from me and gave me everything. I know now what I did not know then. That is. I AM NOT ALONE! >>>>>>>NEITER ARE YOU. YOUR AlWAYS WELCOME! Al M
Thank you for the civil tone of your comment. I don’t think I am playing god. I am simply offering life-saving advice based on careful observation. It’s the prerogative of the scientist (even if I don’t have a string of letters following my name).
And based on my experience and observation, there are few professionals in AA, and the ones there do not remain long. Tattoos, piercings, and sun seared cheeks are much more common. Again, that is just an observation, not a judgment. Nor does it discredit AA, but at the same time they cannot hide behind professional legitimacy, despite what the Big Book says. If you don’t believe me that’s fine. Just go to your local meeting and see for yourself. It’s a basic principle of science: reproducibility.
But I’ve noticed some exceptions to the rule: Defense lawyers love AA because it provides an opportunity to practice the skill of stretching the truth without straining credulity. (Remember, not every client is innocent.) Anasthesiologists sometimes end up in AA for a reason that is obvious if you watch them work: they spend hours hovering over a font of gaseous opiates, and they inadvertently can get a taste of their own medicine. So the withdrawals may be misinterpreted as causeless cravings (ie. addiction). Once they resolve the situation, they can resume normal moderate drinking. And of course actors love AA for the same reasons they love acting: the drama, and the agony and the ecstasy. Unfortunately they can sometimes take it too far, e.g. Cory Monteith.
As for the rest: would you enlist the professional services of a man who takes every share as an invitation to mention the age of his last girlfriend? Do you believe his account of who introduced drugs into the relationship and who maintained the flow?
Also, very few people in AA claim to have had a near death experience with alcohol, or blame their crimes on it. That is generally the role of the old-timer, who must claim: “I was about to die and AA was the only thing that ever worked for me.” That little lie is the price of admission, but it’s fine because they are loved for it, and no one would ever question it, except maybe angry, hateful, ignorant people who secretly want what they have. And again, if you don’t believe me, just go and see for yourself. This dynamic is on display daily at every AA meeting around the world!
Bill Wilson was a notorious roamer and 13th Stepper, and author of the fables in the Big Book that are now recited as fact, case in point above. He is idolized and revered by his minions of Real Alcoholics world wide. Talk about playing god!
Yes AA is free to join. Just admit you are powerless and realize you are going to die. But it’s ok this humble Christian apostle of Bill Wilson will be glad to show you the way. It just requires a little rigorous honesty. But that’s not too much to ask, right? Take his hand, and you’ll help keep him sober too (though you may have to tolerate a few stories of drunken escapades along the way!).
Well now I must bid adieu, before I am overcome by a sulphurous stench….
That sulfurous stench is your own BS. When people don’t have true arguments they generally engage in confabulation, fabrication and evasions. That is what I see here. You flail all over, but there is one question I have that you cannot possibly answer reasonably. Why is it that you cannot live quietly in your own belief system without attacking what works for others? Most of what you say about AA, is frankly, pure horseshit. Who appointed you High Lord Inquisitor? Yourself, that’s who. Which means you think you are smarter and better than others and can therefore tell them what’s best for them when in actuality, you know nothing about them.
As the Buddha said, “People with opinions just go around bothering each other.” I have no opinion on your system of belief.
But, if it makes you happy, why are you so angry and focused outside your self for problems? I will tell you why, small dogs yap because they are frightened.
Dear logos, please remove my fear as you did for my friend Dan. So that I no longer have uncontrollable cravings to expose the inner workings of a deadly cult that only serves to protect the mischief of its members. Also yes I know I asked you for his attention, but this is kinda ridiculous. Bordering on obsession!
Still won’t answer a direct question. Still in total denial as to what constraints define scientific “truth.” Still an angry coward. A liar.
A bully. A fool.
All of the contradictory comments to addiction myth just prove that people do not really want to think for themselves, and are more than wiling to buy into anything or anyone who does the thinking for them. The biggest detriment to people evolving and solving their own problems is believing that they can’t. Thank you, addiction myth, for providing a relief from the weak-minded fools that completely subjugate the awesome power of their own minds to slavery.
So there you are flailing and yapping. Still incapable of answering a straight up question. And why: because you don’t have a bit of substance to what you say.
Obsession? No, more like the dread fascination of watching a slow motion train wreck. You talk about scientific method, yet have no statistics to back the venom you spew. You say addiction is a myth, but the consensus is that it is a valid, verifiable physiological, neorological and psychological phenomenon. In the area of spirituality, it is unquantifiable, no evidence exists for either side, so whatever you or I say is just opinion. You can complain all you want about the “allergy” theory in the BB, they were simply stating it in the language of the day. The science of understanding addiction has advanced far. So why don’t you show me some scientific evidence backing your claim that addiction is a myth (since you love science so much) or stop with all your yapping, little scared puppy?
And incidentally, I am not free from fear. Then again, I don’t have a blog online where I feel I must go out of my way to gripe about something which is really none of my damned business.
And another BTW, most of the folks I know in AA are stand-up folks. More than I can say for you, since one of your characteristics is a total seeming inability to answer a straight question or address actual arguments made. That is what is so irritating about you. Very weasely quality. And no, don’t get your hopes up, a tiny bump in the road like you is nothin’ to go out and drink about.
And I think my friend Marcus would see you for the hateful agitator you are and disregard you as an immaterial distraction, would that I were as fine a man as he.
The “science of addiction” is a whole lotta nuthin. It’s a tower of babel that will lead only to confusion and chaos. The consensus is wrong (and it sometimes is). There is simply no scientific evidence for addiction. The only ‘evidence’ we have is from self-professed liars and people who need to join a club to learn how to behave responsibly. Well I don’t know about you, but I’ll take their account with a grain of salt.
I discuss the science in these articles:
http://addictionmyth.com/addict-science/
http://addictionmyth.com/rat-addicts-and-the-science-of-addiction/
http://addictionmyth.com/the-man-who-cured-addiction/
http://addictionmyth.com/a-conversation-with-columbia-neuroscientist-dr-carl-hart/
A few interviews by a bufoon with an ax to grind, with a few anomolous “scientists” who are certainly on the fringe in this issue? Not impressed. When you lean your little bit of “evidence,” coupled with your very biased and fanciful views of AA together, it is rather like a mouse leaning on Mount Everest to move it. You gotta be kiddin’ me. What are your credentials beyond a big mouth and a sack full of bad attitude? Creative writing skills?What experience of yours put AA in your pathetic little crosshairs? Did your mommy not hug you enough? Was your toilet training difficult? Did the National Enquirer fire you? Why, oh why, does the tiny dog yap? Come on now, “inferior” minds want to know, and you are just the one to address that crowd…
You show opinion, and claim that outweighs mountains of actual, bonafide, repeatable scientific evidence. You know it is out there. Or do you? I am beginning to have serious questions as to your ability to live in the present moment. Why don’t you try some TA. Perhaps your child-contaminated delusional Adult could take a break, and then we might hear something like reason from you, not just your sulfurous gas.
Actually there is no scientific evidence in support of addiction. Yes Nora Volkow at NIDA is looking, and I’ll give you credit for sending her on a wild goose chase. It’s pretty funny I’ll admit.
Of course, the lack of evidence doesn’t stop every addict from concocting their own plausible and pseudo-scientific explanation. What’s yours? Cortisol irregularity? Mesolimbic hijack? What protein supplements do you recommend?
AA helped me when I was having difficulty stopping drinking. I would have stopped sooner (before I alienated my family) if there was something else that could have helped me; I searched for years. I have seen no evidence that there is a HP that does any intervening. I would like to see more agnostic and scientific help available; it does seem to be coming: very slowly because of the grip 2000 year old religions have in this country and the world. Respecting religious beliefs is a slippery slope.
I would argue that your difficulty stopping drinking was created by your admission of powerlessness. That is, when you said, “Hi I’m Amy and I’m an alcoholic. I am powerless to alcohol/my life has become unmanageable.” After that point you’re your own worst enemy, especially as someone who is averse to the HP concept. Because then you’re powerless and have no one to rescue you! Typically men don’t become spiritual/religious until middle age (conveniently for some). Women earlier but of course it varies.
Often times men drink to alienate themselves from their family and roam. (This is a main motivation of the Women’s Temperance Movement for Prohibition.) Women may do the same, though it may be out of shame as well (they don’t want the family to know what’s really going on).
Of course, some people use AA as a social or business club, and even though they introduce themselves as alcoholic, they never really buy into it, and eventually leave and drink in moderation.
I believe there will never be a non-religious approach to treat addiction. Why? Because, I believe that addiction is a religion (a form of paganism). It’s like offering a cure for Christianity. People play addict fundamentally because they want to, even if they take it too far and die from it. Scientific diagnosis of the ‘addicted brain’ will remain forever elusive.
Of course, our country was founded on freedom of religion, so we must respect religions even if we disagree with them. The best we can do is point out the flaws, which is the goal of this web site.
Especially whiny ones
No thank you. I refuse to feed Trolls
Silly pagan, why do you even pretend to be Christian? It’s so stupid! What are you ashamed of? Let your freak flag fly!!
This is what is so terribly ridiculous about people like yourself. You get a bully pulpit, and your self-grandiose, underdeveloped and undereducated mind just goes hog-wild. I never said I was a Christian. I am indeed already a pagan. I am a Stoic. Quick, google it…
The common thread in my short and very boring survey of “bashers” has been that they consistentently misrepresent things about twelve step programs. They are also very negative, angry, and generally hateful. Frankly, I feel somewhat sorry for the lot of you. That is tempered by my understanding that all the gas you blow is essentially designed as ego defense over your personal failures, which you project outward onto the program and those who follow it. Since you can’t get it, especially considering your massive intellect, it must be fatally flawed!
I have experienced some of the things I hear talked about. Some AA’s have an anti-intellectual bias. Yes, people relapse. Some people I run into are just plain full of crap. Is there a bit of serious dogmatism? Yep! However, having found some solace in putting my own faults somewhat to bed, and admittting the role I played in my own self-destructive behaviors, and the harm that caused others, I am now able to let others just be who they are. Without making demands. What I learned is that I am responsible for my own feelings. Try it, it is liberating.
You might consider it is you who is fatally flawed. Any further gum-flapping on your part will be sans audience. I was interested for a time in what people had to say about AA in a critical sense. What I have seen has been mostly excuses, ad hominem attacks, poor comparison, poor research, poor logic and whining. Now I am completely bored with your lack of decent argumentative skills and seeming reliance on your crystal ball. Having had my short season in hell, I bid you adieu.
Sorry for being angry and hateful. I will ask my HP to remove those character defects. But I’ve already asked many times. He probably has other things to worry about. I may just need to learn to live with it.
Nevertheless I think it’s interesting that alcoholics/addicts often create their own religion/philosophy to explain the world, or adopt various older ones, usually pagan, which is fine, but then of all things they all seem to agree that addiction is a medical disease, even if it’s surprisingly resistant to biological characterization. Plus AA’s founders were strongly influenced by paganism. And they like to get together and listen to stories of mischief. Well I think that’s funny and suspicious. I’m also surprised that you as an intellectual Stoic would believe that a medical disease could be cured by varying religious beliefs. And I think the fact that you turn to AA to learn responsibility for behavior and/or beliefs indicates that perhaps your problem was not ‘alcoholism’ but simply irresponsibility. Which is the main (and simple and logical) point of my bully pulpit, even if your feelings were hurt (sorry, not my intention).
Well I hypothesize some reasons for alcoholic/addicts’ affinity to choosing their own god/religion. If you can choose and believe in a non-standard religion then you probably think you are superior to the populous sheep and that the rules that apply to them don’t apply to you (which justifies the naughty behavior). Also pagans sometimes believe that spirits infuse material objects, and this makes perfect sense with alcohol: the naughty spirit gets in the drink, then you drink it, and then it’s in you! So if you cheat on your wife when you’re drunk, then it’s not really your fault. (Not that I am saying cheating is bad, only that blaming it on alcohol is.) It’s especially ironic because cheating is supposedly a Christian-defined vice and so you wouldn’t think a soon-to-be-Pagan alcoholic would even feel much need to explain it away. And yet they do, to the extent of even creating their own religion or adopting an obscure ancient one to do so! The flight from Christianity/10 Commandments actually validates it. The contempt hides reverence. Anyway, subject of another post.
But beyond that you brainwash people into powerlessness and excessive drinking, which is a simple factual claim that anyone can go to any meeting or read the scientific studies and decide for themselves, and if someone claims otherwise I will not resort to calling names. Though I may ask for the recitation of their drunkalog (as it is spoken in meetings) to root out ulterior motives.
I also think it’s funny that you unfairly criticize my claims with ad hominem attacks and poor logic when you do exactly that. That’s hypocrisy, and in my opinion that’s the biggest sin. I don’t think Marcus Aurelius would be proud.
Wow, something I hadn’t quite appreciated before when I read some of your other internet forays…you are a skilled creative writer. Or psychotic…
Why don’t you give it a rest, your childish fantasies of what goes on in AA and your whacko “crystal ball” revelations of the future of others you know nothing about only qualify you for a job on a psychic hotline or a rubber room. You really ought to either get a program or finish drinking and drugging yourself to death. Personally, I see the latter as more likely, as you wouldn’t know honesty if someone whacked you in the forehead with a ten pound sack of it.
I’m deeply offended that you would characterize my hard-hitting investigative journalism as “creative writing”. Speaking of which, please oh please post your drunkalog!
I agree ….get your bias OPIONION off here. AA saves lifes and if u dont agree with it just leave it alone.
This web site saves lives. If you don’t agree then go away!
Well actually, don’t go. I’m having too much fun ridiculing your pagan rites!